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Old 03-06-2010, 11:04 AM   #101
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What about picking up the 8kg/mm spring for the front and finding a 5kg/mm spring for the rear?

I do think that the 550lb/in spring would be too much for the damper as well.
Hate to buy (and change) two sets of springs if I could avoid it.

I think I'm gonna go down to a 4kg/mm out back. I'd change the whole suspension anyhow if I ever get as serious about track time as you guys.
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Old 03-06-2010, 11:36 AM   #102
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I HAVE to get my little brother to read this.

He's up to 6-8 track days a year, about to get licensed, and looking at his bike options. He gets dual use out of his '08 ZX-6R, but is investing heavily in gear/equipment as he gets better, and is convinced he needs two bikes.

His solution is to buy a ZX-10R for the street,and make the 600 a dedicated track bike. I keep trying to tell him a small, beater twin would be better, and make him a faster rider...but he LOVES that Ninja.

While I don't blame him, I'd prefer to see him enjoy his hobby at minimal cost and max enjoyment.
That is great he is investing in gear assuming you mean safety gear. A lot of people skimp on this and it is a bad idea.

If he really, really likes the 600 and he wants to track it that is fine. The screaming 4 cyl motors with the astronomical redlines are pretty addicting and the power hit is turbo-like. Some people really like them versus say the SV650.

Lots of people are racing Kawi 600s so it should be easy to find parts. Depending on what year it is he needs to keep an eye out for a gear dog problem with the Kawi 600. The bike we raced last year starting popping out of third into second unexpectedly and we had to pull the motor and replace the gears to fix the problem.

Sorry for the threadjack.
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Old 03-06-2010, 03:24 PM   #103
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******* gay *** spring's part # stickers are all gone. Mystery spring fail.
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Old 03-06-2010, 03:27 PM   #104
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Can't you just call Tein?
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Old 03-06-2010, 03:36 PM   #105
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******* gay *** spring's part # stickers are all gone. Mystery spring fail.

corner weight the car, measure how much the spring compresses, do the math, ??????, profit.
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Old 03-06-2010, 03:59 PM   #106
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corner weight the car, measure how much the spring compresses, do the math, ??????, profit.
lol, Hustler with scales, ya right.
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Old 03-06-2010, 03:59 PM   #107
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lol, Hustler with math, ya right.
ftfy
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Old 03-06-2010, 07:37 PM   #108
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lol, Hustler with scales, ya right.
I've been offering to NOT kick the *** of anyone who will let me use their scales for a long time.
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Old 03-06-2010, 08:00 PM   #109
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Old 03-06-2010, 09:02 PM   #110
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No, Hydrocodine is
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Old 03-06-2010, 10:14 PM   #111
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I did because I wanted some of this mystery grip...there is now way in hell I can go that tight, that fast. Hopefully things are about to change though.

I'm considering going to TDR today and getting softer rear springs too since I have a 10k/7k set-up currently.
tight? you mean hitting the apex? you missed a couple of those. other problem is there's 2 corners at h2r that you completely forget about the convetional line. 1 is top of the hill (santa rita) you hug the curbing, same thing at the hairpin. if not, the track throws you to the outside of the turn and you have to wait longer before you can go wot. the hairpin is actually banked on the inside by the curbing, and off camber from mid-track on out.

those 2 corners alone can shave seconds.
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Old 03-06-2010, 10:39 PM   #112
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I think Trey can put down a respectable time at a track he knows. Or maybe he could have fun in his street car, it shouldn't really matter either way.
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Old 03-07-2010, 02:21 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by tann3r View Post
Finally uploaded a video from that weekend. Its a little extra shakey, I need to gusset my diy camera mount, but the track is really bumpy.
H2R CCW

Lets see..

T1-T2
No need to late apex T1 to set up wide for T2. T2 is a hairpin so you will reach the same minimum speed even if you go in early. I'd suggst carrying more speed through T1 so you are forced wide at the exit and dive into T2 from inside. Your net time in T2 will also drop so T1-T2 sector will be much faster.

T4
Long enough that late apexing is also moot. I'd drive to the inside and trail brake to rotate the car. Sector time will be shorter, min speed only about 102 less and exit speed the same. You'll be able to brake about 75 later though and that's where the time is. My guess is track is much smother on the inside which would allow higher average braking G as well.

T7
Same story. Dive to the inside and trail brake for rotation. This turn looks like it's progressively negative camber on entry. Meaning its flatter on the inside and rolls of at the outside. The further outside you are, the less grip you have, rubber on the surface notwithstanding.

T9-T10
This is one turn. Both cars are treating it as two. The approach should be straight in to the right edge of the track about 1/3rd the way between 8-9.

This track has a lot of turns that are treated as 180's. It's a common intermediate drivers mistake to instinctively late apex them. That's a good habit on most of the time but works against you in these types of turns.

There is a technique (that I learned on our sim) that I call tangent braking. I use it on 180's where the minimum speed will be the same regardless how you enter.

You approach the turn, a left 180 say, on the right edge of the track. The instant before braking, you jink left towards the inside of the turn, usually just a few degrees of the centerline of the straight you are one. Brake at maximum but do it in a straight line. The technique only works if you get the car pointed straight. Apply the brakes a fraction to soon while the car is still "jinking" that little bit and you are now a drifter.

The technique allows you to brake deeper because you can finish your braking as you are actually entering the turn. It also reduces the total yaw amount made in the turn by maybe 10. You will also drive a shorter distance.

I would use Tangent braking in 2,4,5,7,9 here.

Hustler,

It appears you are allergic to apexes. I could drive another Miata sideways between you and the apexes on some of those turns. You're also turning in epic-ly late. Like 6 car lengths in spots.
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Old 03-07-2010, 04:38 AM   #114
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I think Trey can put down a respectable time at a track he knows. Or maybe he could have fun in his street car, it shouldn't really matter either way.
i'm sure he put down a respectable time at this track his first time there. but i promise you he would have had more fun if he had put down a smoking lap time, and obliterated tann3r! lol... no offense colin. don't mistake help for criticism.

it took me a while to figure out this track. to tell you the truth i really didn't like it at first. once i figured out some of the corners i started having alot more fun, and now i love it. not sure why i try to help though. he is one of my biggest threats in the challenge! i guess i just want everyone to get faster this year like the cali. guys.
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Old 03-07-2010, 08:36 AM   #115
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Emilio, Awesome critique, thats the kind of stuff i need to to make me go faster.

T1 - I'll admit i was being a sissy. Scared of the blind brake zone.

T4 - I'll have to give that a try next time. I was braking down the left side to avoid the bumps mid track.

T7 - Also a good point.

T9-T10 - I see, you recommend treating it as a singe apex decreasing radius turn.

Tangent braking - I did end up doing something similar, maybe not to the extent that you are talking about. I also made the same mistake you mentioned about braking a fraction too early. you can see/hear it braking for T2 in this video.

This is the lap immediately after Hustler let me by.



Any more comments are more than welcome
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Old 03-07-2010, 03:00 PM   #116
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tight? you mean hitting the apex? you missed a couple of those.
I was trying different lines and trying to figure out wtf Colin was doing to run my *** down, considering it was my second session on the track in that direction. I'm also going off-line in a couple places because I don't like dealing with all the bumps. enough **** on my car came loose that I don't mind avoiding breaking more stuff.

I'll start taking the hairpin tighter CCW. Most of those last two sessions in CCW were guessing games considering I've never driven on this track before and we drove CW in the first 3 sessions.

My fun-time on the track is not based upon outrunning anyone, its one of the few things I can do in my life to get away from daily life stress.

I'm not taking the scoring all that seriously, I'm out here for fun. When it becomes too serious, I don't want to do it anymore...I already have a job to stress me out.

Last edited by hustler; 03-07-2010 at 03:16 PM.
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Old 03-07-2010, 03:14 PM   #117
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Hustler,

It appears you are allergic to apexes. I could drive another Miata sideways between you and the apexes on some of those turns. You're also turning in epic-ly late. Like 6 car lengths in spots.
I had to get the car straight to get on the loud pedal. My tires suggest that I'm only using the shoulder out there.
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Old 03-07-2010, 03:23 PM   #118
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I'm also going off-line in a couple places because I don't like dealing with all the bumps. enough **** on my car came loose that I don't mind avoiding breaking more stuff.
So are you hitting **** on the track, bottoming out, or is it just a really rough ride on the bumps? Reason I ask is I am wondering about how aggressive to be with the ride height on my setup. I do not want to show up at H2R with a really low ground clearance setup and just drag parts on the track in the bumpy sections.
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Old 03-07-2010, 03:51 PM   #119
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FWIW, I'm running 11.5-11.75/12ish and I didnt drag any hard parts, but the bumps are really rough. In that last video on the back straight (T6) you can hear the rear tire run the top of the fender twice.

I was real tentative over the bumps, it seemed like they were large enough to really unsettle the car, so i left some safety margin. Definately left time on the table, but i think i did ok for my second session in that config.
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Old 03-07-2010, 04:06 PM   #120
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OK thanks Tann3r that answers my question.
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