Tapered Roller Bearing Hubs--IT'S HAPPENING - Page 3 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 03-16-2016, 12:16 AM   #41
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All the ones I've seen look like flat roller bearings. look at the apps tab also. Read the paragraph below the specs.

Timken Wheel Bearings 510082 - Free Shipping on Orders Over $99 at Summit Racing
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Old 03-16-2016, 12:43 AM   #42
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All the ones I've seen look like flat roller bearings. look at the apps tab also. Read the paragraph below the specs.

Timken Wheel Bearings 510082 - Free Shipping on Orders Over $99 at Summit Racing
Those are angular contact ball bearings. same sort of thing the Miata uses in the rear. Oddly the aplication you picked is mosly SUV's as well. Miata rear bearings don't fail. The front ones are too small.
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Old 03-16-2016, 01:04 AM   #43
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That isn't what the description says, it states they are flat roller brearings and they fit porsches, audis, vws, front inner
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Old 03-16-2016, 02:24 AM   #44
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That isn't what the description says, it states they are flat roller brearings and they fit porsches, audis, vws, front inner
Same exact paragraph as written on a Miata rear wheel bearing part number 510003 instead of 510082 they are both dual row angular contact ball bearings. The Miata front hubs are the same type of dual row angular contact bearing but the outer race material is the hub. The outer race bearing contact surfaces are machined and case hardened right into the material that forms the hub. The front bearings on the Miata are smaller than the rears the fronts fail the rears don't.
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Old 03-16-2016, 03:27 AM   #45
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FWIW I have been doing FEA analisis of front Axles knuckles and hubs for class 8 trucks up to 23k lb front axle weight rating. USA spec axles are in the dark ages following SAE standards with tapered roller bearings inner and outer are different sizes. The Europe ones are also tapered rollers but inner and outer are the same size.

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Old 03-16-2016, 05:17 AM   #46
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Hmm.
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Old 03-16-2016, 09:45 AM   #47
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That isn't what the description says, it states they are flat roller brearings and they fit porsches, audis, vws, front inner
That is a generic write up that summit puts there for 99% of the Timken wheel bearings they sell. Its a ball bearing. And like bob said, that bearing fits SUV regardless of the make, specifically the Cayenne, Touareg, Q7, and Range Rover. Its also got a 3.78" OD, its huge.
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Old 03-16-2016, 01:35 PM   #48
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That is a generic write up that summit puts there for 99% of the Timken wheel bearings they sell. Its a ball bearing. And like bob said, that bearing fits SUV regardless of the make, specifically the Cayenne, Touareg, Q7, and Range Rover. Its also got a 3.78" OD, its huge.
The Miata rear bearing is the same bearing Audi uses on the TT and VW uses on the golf etc They are all ball bearing.

Timken auto bearing catalog. look **** up almost nobody uses tapered rollers anymore on sports/passenger cars.
http://www.showmetheparts.com/timken/
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Old 03-16-2016, 02:13 PM   #49
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I did look **** up, didn't know what they were saying wasn't the truth. I see pictures on the timken site no info as to what the type of brg is, but as others have also confirmed they are ball brg.. I still well go with a tapered roller if Cord and FM comes up with one that uses its own race and not the hub as a race.
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Old 03-16-2016, 02:51 PM   #50
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The generic photos and descriptions used by online retailers these days can be very misleading. Its best to reference the manufacturers information rather than the retailers.
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Old 03-16-2016, 10:53 PM   #51
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The Miata hub was built for a car with skinny tires and 90-115hp. It's not really surprising that they fail on the track with high horsepower, wide tires and harsh curbs.

The whole idea with the new hubs is to build in a safety factor, and to not have to buy new or service your old hubs every season. Porsche does use tapered bearings, which is one of the reasons why I chose them for these hubs. But then again the lower strut arm for a 944 Turbo is the same as that used for a 4 door Rabbit diesel--they may use ball bearing too for all I know. These particular tapered bearings are used by Audi, Renault and even Bentley.

To put it another way, I helped my friend change the out-drive on his 28' Cat. He had a blown 520ci engine with about 850hp and it was destroying his Mercury stern drives about every other month. The new IMCO stern drive was about 30lbs heavier than the original, but was stronger in every way. The boat even lost a couple mph. But it didn't break, and that's the kind of peace of mind you want when you're 30 miles away from your dock.

These hubs aren't as "extreme" as the IMCO stern drive. They won' be heavier, but they should last much longer and be much safer. As such, the number one benefit of this "performance" part should be safety.
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Old 03-17-2016, 07:34 PM   #52
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Throbbing *****...sorry, had to.


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Tapered Roller Bearing Hubs--IT'S HAPPENING-80-f_hub_compare_clipped_50mpa_small_e4c5132832b3e1b5fb9eb951f99865e4f75da858.gif  
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Old 03-17-2016, 10:20 PM   #53
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Default how we tested

I'd call this an 80% test, that gave us 100% of what we needed. The FE model has a representative hub and rotor included--basically a 6mm thick steel disk (rotor rep) and 16mm thick aluminum disk (wheel rep). The loads are placed at the tire contact patch and transferred through those representative pieces, into the hub, through the bearings via contact elements, and finally to the constraint representing the upright. So those stresses are representative of real life. But NOT real life. That's next.

Going the extra 20% would have added the 80% cost and time. That would have involved rotating the assembly while taking stress measurements. I didn't want to do that because we have a baseline, which is the stock hub. And we have historical references, which are the all cracked hubs and crazy Youtube videos.


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Old 03-18-2016, 01:10 AM   #54
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Old 03-20-2016, 01:44 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by cordycord View Post
The Miata hub was built for a car with skinny tires and 90-115hp. It's not really surprising that they fail on the track with high horsepower, wide tires and harsh curbs.

The whole idea with the new hubs is to build in a safety factor, and to not have to buy new or service your old hubs every season. Porsche does use tapered bearings, which is one of the reasons why I chose them for these hubs. But then again the lower strut arm for a 944 Turbo is the same as that used for a 4 door Rabbit diesel--they may use ball bearing too for all I know. These particular tapered bearings are used by Audi, Renault and even Bentley.

To put it another way, I helped my friend change the out-drive on his 28' Cat. He had a blown 520ci engine with about 850hp and it was destroying his Mercury stern drives about every other month. The new IMCO stern drive was about 30lbs heavier than the original, but was stronger in every way. The boat even lost a couple mph. But it didn't break, and that's the kind of peace of mind you want when you're 30 miles away from your dock.

These hubs aren't as "extreme" as the IMCO stern drive. They won' be heavier, but they should last much longer and be much safer. As such, the number one benefit of this "performance" part should be safety.
Acording to the timkin catalog the last year Porche used tapered rollers on any model car was 1996. the Idea died with the 928/968. Every 911,Boxter,Cayenne,CARRERA GT, Cayman, and Panamera built for the last 20 years has ***** both front and rear.
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Old 03-20-2016, 03:31 AM   #56
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. Every 911,Boxter,Cayenne,CARRERA GT, Cayman, and Panamera built for the last 20 years has ***** both front and rear.
...although most of the Boxsters didn't have very many of them.

--Ian
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Old 03-20-2016, 09:51 PM   #57
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The tapered bearings are the shitty things that I had to constantly repack on my father's 80s GM shitboxes, right?
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Old 03-20-2016, 11:06 PM   #58
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The tapered bearings are the shitty things that I had to constantly repack on my father's 80s GM shitboxes, right?
Nope, these are cartridge-type. They look great in FEA and our tier 1 supplier recommends them, so we're going to throw a few pair on some racing Miatas and see what blows up....hopefully nothing.
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Old 03-20-2016, 11:44 PM   #59
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Your lucky your grandfather didn't have a mid 60's or earlier car with ball bearings if you thought the 80's was bad.
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Old 03-21-2016, 02:13 PM   #60
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Your lucky your grandfather didn't have a mid 60's or earlier car with ball bearings if you thought the 80's was bad.
My Mazda's that had tapered roller bearings **** there wheel bearings out on a regular basis on street driven cars on all season tires. My GM SUV gets new wheel bearings every time I change rotors they also are ****.

They were not cartridge type bearings however. Maybe tighter tolerances would help and better adjustment of cartridge type would help allot.
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