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Old 09-09-2013, 07:45 PM   #41
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Seriously, if you are going to run crazy close-rates in the draft, don't cry when it goes wrong.
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Old 09-09-2013, 07:59 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sixshooter View Post
It looks pretty damning from the videos, intentional or not.
I disagree. I think the whole story can be derived simply by watching Emilio's steering wheel.

On public roads, there's a concept known as 'right of way'. According to the rules of this race, Emilio had the 'right of way'.
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Old 09-09-2013, 08:02 PM   #43
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Sorry sixshooter I disagree too. I think Emilio got screwed over by the officials who obviousley bowed to an over emotional mini driver.

Emilios cold, plain logic probably didn't stand a chance to someone overwrought and presenting a hard done by story....
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Old 09-10-2013, 03:18 PM   #44
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Couple of observations:

1. Maybe they gave you a one race ban not because you blatantly broke a written rule but because you have a history of avoidable contact in NASA National Championship races. Or that you have a history of driving people off of the road at 110+mph in NASA Championship races? Maybe last year was strikes 1 and 2, and this year was strike 3?

2. My initial reaction (and other guys with me when we watched it, other guys with years and years of high level road racing experience) was that you blatantly and dangerously drove the guy off the road. We were blown away by how blatant and obvious it was. Now, after reviewing both videos multiple times I still feel the exact same way. I'm not the least bit surprised they gave you a one race ban.

3. Are you not steering left at 0:16 in your video?

4. You are blatantly blocking, not just defending. You get one move. Your one move was driving down the middle of the road. You chose your line coming out of the corner. When you realized you had left too much room, you made your second move. That's at 0:15-0:16 in your video. You move left again to pinch the guy off and drive him off the road. You made two moves, and therefor were blocking, and you drove the guy off the road at 110 mph much like you did last year to the RSX. I think this is what the NASA officials meant by "more abrubtly moving to the left". If your one move was to drive straight to left edge of the track more abruptly the Mini would have never gone there and you could have avoided contact.

5. What if the mini driver lost control and went spinning into one of the concrete barriers at 100mph, what if he got seriously injured? Would it have been worth it? A HEAT race, of what a 4 or 5 car race. C'mon, seriously?

6. Of course you're steering right at the moment of impact, if you wouldn't have you would likely have spun. Your just counter-steering the yaw created by the impact. It's not like you made a huge effort to move to the right to avoid contact. If you would have made that effort, there would have been no contact.

7. If you were to do this in a REAL race, your a$$ would get punted or put into a wall. Plain and simple.


I'm sure my response will cause a big ruckus, and I'm sure you'll have some really great response about how innocent you are in this. Whatever, everyone here can continue to think that you're the poor victim. I contemplated long and hard about responding in this stupid thread, and I'll probably regret it. But c'mon, you drove a guy off the road, damaged both of your cars, and could have seriously injured someone, all for what?

Better luck next year. Maybe you'll be able to make it through a whole Championshipe weekened without making contact with another car.

Maybe

Last edited by Efini~FC3S; 09-10-2013 at 03:20 PM. Reason: typo, had to add a D
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Old 09-10-2013, 03:45 PM   #45
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Old 09-10-2013, 03:54 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efini~FC3S View Post
Couple of observations:

1. Maybe they gave you a one race ban not because you blatantly broke a written rule but because you have a history of avoidable contact in NASA National Championship races. Or that you have a history of driving people off of the road at 110+mph in NASA Championship races? Maybe last year was strikes 1 and 2, and this year was strike 3?

2. My initial reaction (and other guys with me when we watched it, other guys with years and years of high level road racing experience) was that you blatantly and dangerously drove the guy off the road. We were blown away by how blatant and obvious it was. Now, after reviewing both videos multiple times I still feel the exact same way. I'm not the least bit surprised they gave you a one race ban.

3. Are you not steering left at 0:16 in your video?

4. You are blatantly blocking, not just defending. You get one move. Your one move was driving down the middle of the road. You chose your line coming out of the corner. When you realized you had left too much room, you made your second move. That's at 0:15-0:16 in your video. You move left again to pinch the guy off and drive him off the road. You made two moves, and therefor were blocking, and you drove the guy off the road at 110 mph much like you did last year to the RSX. I think this is what the NASA officials meant by "more abrubtly moving to the left". If your one move was to drive straight to left edge of the track more abruptly the Mini would have never gone there and you could have avoided contact.

5. What if the mini driver lost control and went spinning into one of the concrete barriers at 100mph, what if he got seriously injured? Would it have been worth it? A HEAT race, of what a 4 or 5 car race. C'mon, seriously?

6. Of course you're steering right at the moment of impact, if you wouldn't have you would likely have spun. Your just counter-steering the yaw created by the impact. It's not like you made a huge effort to move to the right to avoid contact. If you would have made that effort, there would have been no contact.

7. If you were to do this in a REAL race, your a$$ would get punted or put into a wall. Plain and simple.


I'm sure my response will cause a big ruckus, and I'm sure you'll have some really great response about how innocent you are in this. Whatever, everyone here can continue to think that you're the poor victim. I contemplated long and hard about responding in this stupid thread, and I'll probably regret it. But c'mon, you drove a guy off the road, damaged both of your cars, and could have seriously injured someone, all for what?

Better luck next year. Maybe you'll be able to make it through a whole Championshipe weekened without making contact with another car.

Maybe
What's the point of racing if you can't have male-to-male contact?

you sound like a virgin.
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Old 09-10-2013, 03:59 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efini~FC3S View Post
4. You are blatantly blocking, not just defending. You get one move. Your one move was driving down the middle of the road. You chose your line coming out of the corner. When you realized you had left too much room, you made your second move. That's at 0:15-0:16 in your video. You move left again to pinch the guy off and drive him off the road. You made two moves, and therefor were blocking, and you drove the guy off the road at 110 mph much like you did last year to the RSX. I think this is what the NASA officials meant by "more abrubtly moving to the left". If your one move was to drive straight to left edge of the track more abruptly the Mini would have never gone there and you could have avoided contact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NASA Rules posted above
Blocking
A driver may choose to protect his or her line so l
ong as it is not considered blocking. Blocking is
defined as
two (2) consecutive line changes to “protect his/he
r line,” and in doing so, impedes the vehicle that
is trying to
pass with each of the two (2) consecutive movements
.
Maybe I'm missing something (likely), but your interpretation of the rules seems to be contrary to what the rule actually says. He made 1 line change to "protect his/her line". Driving down the middle of the straight is not "protecting your line".

Again I'm basically going off of F1 rules here since I don't race in NASA. And on just about EVERY straight where an F1 driver legally "protects" his line, he starts by driving down the middle of the straight, not hugging the inside edge.
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Old 09-10-2013, 04:39 PM   #48
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One could argue that his move at 0:15 is the second of two consecutive moves. He is already moving left (which is the first move to protect his line) and when he realizes he hasn't protected enough he moves over further at 0:15-0:16.

It doesn't really matter though, it's arguing scemantics.

He drove the guy off the road.

He could have avoided the contact.
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Old 09-10-2013, 04:42 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efini~FC3S View Post
He could have avoided the contact.
That's a dumb argument, so could the mini driver.
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Old 09-10-2013, 04:45 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thenuge26 View Post
That's a dumb argument, so could the mini driver.
Yes, he could have.

But the mini doesn't have a history of driving guys off the road at 100+ mph, one of the other drivers in this situation does.

The mini driver doesn't have a history of lots of contact in Nasa championship races, contact that was 100% avoidable.

One of my teammates raced against the mini driver in 2011, I believe the mini finished 2nd in PTB that year. Never heard anything negative about his driving.
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Old 09-10-2013, 05:59 PM   #51
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The whole problem is that there are some very big inconsistancies in NASA from region to region. Take the Hyperfest E30 incident for example:

MMQB Who would you blame in this racing incident. - RoadRaceAutoX

Hyperfest clip HD on Vimeo

Rob Gagliardo: HYPERfest 2013 - Sunday race (wreck/rollover) - YouTube
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Old 09-10-2013, 06:10 PM   #52
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The video that is of any use was removed and I can see where you are coming from Luke.

In the first video it appears as if the Mini had more than enough time to react and continued in a manor in which any regular driver would have assumed contact would be made. I do believe Crusher was blocking but it was avoidable by the Mini. Given you were in the shoes of the Mini would you have driven any different?
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Old 09-10-2013, 06:23 PM   #53
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It's bad form to argue with trolls.
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Old 09-10-2013, 07:12 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efini~FC3S View Post
Yes, he could have.

But the mini doesn't have a history of driving guys off the road at 100+ mph, one of the other drivers in this situation does.

The mini driver doesn't have a history of lots of contact in Nasa championship races, contact that was 100% avoidable.

One of my teammates raced against the mini driver in 2011, I believe the mini finished 2nd in PTB that year. Never heard anything negative about his driving.
You're ignoring the fact that it was the Mini driver's responsibility to avoid the contact, not Emilio's.

Quote:
Once the trailing car has its front wheel next t
o the driver of the
other vehicle, it is considered that the trailing c
ar has a right to be there.
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Old 09-10-2013, 07:33 PM   #55
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What the entire thing boils down to is "does driving down the middle of the straight constitute a line change?" I don't believe it does, it looks to me like Emilio made 1 line change to the left before the mini has the right to be there.

If you take driving down the middle of the straight to be a line change (vs hugging one of the sides) then Emilio is in the wrong.
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Old 09-10-2013, 09:18 PM   #56
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Hopefully you weren't thinking I was trolling sav. I believe Emilio moved to control the situation a bit but I don't feel it was reckless or a bad move. If I were in the mini I definitely wouldn't have persued that line. it was obvious Emilio wasn't going to leave room on that side.

Anyhow sorry Emilio sucks you and so many put all that effort in and got screwed.

Driving down the middle is most definitely not a move. If Emilio went left then right yes. But he didn't
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Old 09-11-2013, 02:10 PM   #57
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Quote:
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Hopefully you weren't thinking I was trolling sav.
Not at all.
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Old 09-11-2013, 03:38 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
What's the point of racing if you can't have male-to-male contact?

you sound like a virgin.
Post of the year.
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Old 09-11-2013, 07:03 PM   #59
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Old 09-11-2013, 08:00 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by circuitmstr74 View Post
could have been worse!
The difference is that the defending driver in this video initiated his block after there was overlap. I made my block while the mini was about two lengths back then held a dead straight line until just before impact. I turn way before impact while a little over a car width a car width from the track edge. This driver is actually steering towards the passing driver while there is less than one car width remaining.
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