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Got a set of E46 sensor and saw what you meant. They probably could be hacked/trimmed plus using a thinner bolt to get them to line up, but using non-abs spindle where one drills the proper holes is the nicer solution.
So ... I got a set of non-ABS spindles too. Seems the way the E46 sensors are shaped/oriented, the front-left one will fit the space on the front-right Miata spindle and vice versa. (Assuming the flat side of the sensor housing is the one where the trigger wheel has to be on?)
Are you making new brackets or just hacked the OEM ones? Seems the bracket should be much thinner where the sensor mounts so, it gets close enough to the trigger wheel.
Also, does anyone know if BMW/Ate have publish any specs on what the gap between these sensors and the trigger wheel should be?
Flat side of the sensor
You can do either. Mill the original or just make new ones the correct thickness. We are planning on making new brackets for the rear for the upcoming kits along with sending in your front spindles to be machined to accept the BMW sensors.
Why not just use Miata sensors? It seems to me that it would be a lot easier to insert a little bit of analog electronics than to machine a bunch of suspension hardware to mount different sensors.
Why not just use Miata sensors? It seems to me that it would be a lot easier to insert a little bit of analog electronics than to machine a bunch of suspension hardware to mount different sensors.
--Ian
Not sure that will work with the BMW system. From what I understand the BMW system actually has the capability of fault checking the individual sensors through a circuit built into the sensors themselves. Using a signal conversion box might not play well with the Mk60 system. I would say give it a try though.
With lathes and mills in my shop it is easier for me to machine a solution in this case. It's not that complicated and BMW sensors are known to be very robust and cheap.
Why not just use Miata sensors? It seems to me that it would be a lot easier to insert a little bit of analog electronics than to machine a bunch of suspension hardware to mount different sensors.
--Ian
Because the NA/NB Miata use an archaic system with inductive sensors.
Modern ABS use active sensors which can measure low wheel speed too - you can't quite do this with the inductive sensors. Modern Bosch ABS usually use hall effect sensors (3 wire) and the ATE Teves Mk60 uses magnetoresistive sensors (2 wire).
The signals generated are different between the inductive, hall effect and the magnetoresistive ones.
I guess one can make an electronic converter which turns one signal shape into the other, but IMHO this is way more pain than just mounting the BMW sensors and also what's the point of mounting a good ABS if you're going to mess it up with crap sensors.
Keep in mind these systems don't just do antilock but brake proportioning too - i.e. they measure the wheel decceleration speeds under braking and actively play with the front and rear brake pressures if they measure the wheels deccelerating differently. The more accurate the signals = the better the calculations they do.
Not sure that will work with the BMW system. From what I understand the BMW system actually has the capability of fault checking the individual sensors through a circuit built into the sensors themselves. Using a signal conversion box might not play well with the Mk60 system. I would say give it a try though.
I remember mentioned somewhere on the BMW forums that the MK60 measures the sensors for faults even when the vehicle is not moving so with a signal converter (which unless very complicated won't be generating anything when your trigger rings are not rotating) who knows in what kind of safety mode it may end up engaging if it decides you got faulty sensors.
Originally Posted by fmcokc
It's not that complicated and BMW sensors are known to be very robust and cheap.
A set of all 4 brand new E46 sensors for the MK60 on Amazon:
Also, one can buy all the needed connectors, pins, etc. for the BMW individually (and the prices are relatively low), while for the Miata you have to hunt for used harnesses on Ebay and pay extra.
The BMW sensors have 3 pickups. So each tooth is being measured 3 times. That way the system can have a much higher resolution, including being able to measure individual tooth acceleration, not just speed. A lot of this has to do with the traction and stability control, but it does mean no other sensor would work.
The BMW sensors have 3 pickups. So each tooth is being measured 3 times. That way the system can have a much higher resolution, including being able to measure individual tooth acceleration, not just speed. A lot of this has to do with the traction and stability control, but it does mean no other sensor would work.
When I was looking at swapping it into my car, I spoke to a shop that had some some swaps and said they'd successfully done it by electronically adapting the sensors.
When I was looking at swapping it into my car, I spoke to a shop that had some some swaps and said they'd successfully done it by electronically adapting the sensors.
--Ian
If you ever plan on mucking with TC or what have you the digital signal of a hall effect sensor is loads easier to work with than the analog of an inductive sensor from a control perspective. Although I've yet to see anyone fit HE sensors, a signal condition box to retain the mazda abs, and aftermarket/custom TC...
If you ever plan on mucking with TC or what have you the digital signal of a hall effect sensor is loads easier to work with than the analog of an inductive sensor from a control perspective. Although I've yet to see anyone fit HE sensors, a signal condition box to retain the mazda abs, and aftermarket/custom TC...
I have a RaceLogic TC system and NB2 ABS in the car. I was looking into replacing the NB2 system with the BMW one, but have since shelved that project because I switched to a different car for track use.
I have a RaceLogic TC system and NB2 ABS in the car. I was looking into replacing the NB2 system with the BMW one, but have since shelved that project because I switched to a different car for track use.
--Ian
Gotcha, I guess that should have been "if you ever plan on mucking with custom TC".
Either way you're correct in that it is fairly trivial to convert the analog waveform to digital encoder format.
Just a quick update, final got the car together and took it for a quick spin around the block a few times last night. ABS works. No faults. It just works.
We will be testing the system at the upcoming WRL race at Barber on March 16-17. What a way to try it out, with a pair of 8 hour races.
Just a quick update, final got the car together and took it for a quick spin around the block a few times last night. ABS works. No faults. It just works.
We will be testing the system at the upcoming WRL race at Barber on March 16-17. What a way to try it out, with a pair of 8 hour races.
Awesome!
Any plans on testing a manual proportioning valve (adjustable) in the rear line, between the master cylinder and the ABS unit. Or leaving all the proportioning to be done by the Teves?
Awesome!
Any plans on testing a manual proportioning valve (adjustable) in the rear line, between the master cylinder and the ABS unit. Or leaving all the proportioning to be done by the Teves?
I have one installed currently. I will be trying different knee point levels to see if it makes a difference
Just a quick update, final got the car together and took it for a quick spin around the block a few times last night. ABS works. No faults. It just works.
We will be testing the system at the upcoming WRL race at Barber on March 16-17. What a way to try it out, with a pair of 8 hour races.
Any news in how did ABS perform over the 16 hours?
Well, it works. How well I still don’t really know. We literally didn’t have any time to test the car before the race.The guys driving the car during the race were complaining about some weird characteristics during trail breaking. I think we had the front/rear bias set a little too far to the rear.
Before I could get into the car and test it myself, they suffered engine failure. I have since dropped a spare motor in the car and I am waiting a few parts before I start testing it on my own.
I have had a chance to play with the Mk60 ABS in the Miata. Wow, it's really good.
A couple of weeks ago I had the chance to drive the "Big Bad Wolf" on One Lap of America. (If you don't know the car, look it up as s2000 big bad wolf) The ABS system is basically the same on the 2 cars. During One Lap I was able to go SOOOOOOO deep into some very fast corners and just stand on the brakes and let the system do the rest. I haven't had a chance yet for the really (relative) high speed stuff in the Miata but at <100, it works just like the Honda system.
So good.
We will be running it at Hastings in the WRL race on June 29-30. Maybe praying for rain to see how this thing does in the wet stuff.
We ran at Road Atlanta last weekend, The car placed 3rd in class (GP3) on Saturday and 4th in class on Sunday and set the fastest lap of the weekend in class. (1:44.500) I was able to easily brake at the 200 marker into turn 10A , just after the start of the right side curb entering 5 and halfway down the left side curb at turn 3. Try that consistently with no ABS.
We also has a chance to race in the pouring rain at RA. That was where the ABS really shined. It was like we had "magic" tires on the car when it came to braking.
Also, not a single flat spot or off track excursion due to brake lockup. This system is a must for any serious racers.
Any experience with an NB ABS system? I know full well how good the BMW system is, but with ABS in the near future for our Lucky Dog car, as Chief Mechanic I need to make sure I can convince the Chief Budget Manager that the Mk60 is worth it over the NB ABS system.
02-28-2019, 03:40 PM
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