Tow vehicle
 

Looking into getting a vehicle to tow the miata to the track. My budget is $5000 or less, and I am hoping to get an SUV that way I can just put an air mattress in the back and sleep. Suggestions?

Van. I plan to get one eventually.

model? engine size? make? something? you are short on details master of the hustle.

For my enemies: 6.0L diesel Ford.

For my friends: Anything else.

My dad's 1988 Chevy 1500 was bought for $500, and has been fairly reliable. We've replaced the radiator/oil cooler, rebuilt diff, water temp sensor, ac compressor, and a few other bits I can't remember. It needs a clutch, 4x4 actuator, tire rod, and once that's fixed, tires. We use it for extreme abuse, mostly on their property, and lugging gravel/bark dust/yard debris/rocks to/from said property. The interior is shit, both in quality and how we've maintained it, it's a farm truck. I might consider one of those or a similar Ford for a dirt cheap tow vehicle, although I'd spend a little extra to begin with. Doesn't help with your air mattress hopes though.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1322763514

Anything with a V8 should be fine to tow with. It is was I am planning for the spring.

God that thing is fugly...

Ok, so stay away from the 6.0 diesel ford.

I mean I am planning on hosting bondagevan.com out of mine on the weekends I am not camping in it.

I could really care less what the tow vehicle looks like. I just like that I can tow and sleep in it. Works better then a pickup. I also think I got like 14mpg towing my car from VA to SC when I did that.

What about a Sprinter? They can do a 10 minute lap around the 'Ring too.

I don't care man, I might end up driving that shit to work when my car is down. I can't drive to work in a pedo van. can I atleast get one with windows? ;)


cheapest one I can find is 10 grand.

Ford 5.4 with a tow package. Plan to get a massive ATF cooler, I'm using an RX7 cooler on mine.
The 4.6 sucks to pull with, but they can be had on the cheap. Some say the Chevy rear end sucks for towing in regards to reliability, my father owned a Ford salvage yard for a couple decades and says the 5.4 E250 is god. I should note that he's a Chevy fan to the extreme where he sports a bowtie encrusted diamond ring, lol.
You can't afford a diesel on that budget. If I could find a Cummins van, I'd pay for it.
ugly is best and insurance is cheap on the van. I also plan to add a desk complete with a bucket-chair, rope swing, refridgerator, and I'm looking at 12v AC options. I will save about $200 in hotel fees by partying in the van.
They suffer from questionable reliability to the extent that FedEx cut them off and they're back to Ford vans. Think about all the E250 vans and for trucks you'll find in salvage yards for parts, you can't do that with the Sprinter. I've also heard that parts are hard to come by from the dealers and most parts are ordered from socialist Germany, not to be confused with the socialist UAW.
A van with windows does not offer the security of hiding car parts when parked. You may also encounter difficulties insuring a "multi-passenger van". The panel van is the way.

Oh, there are a ton of yellow, retired 5.4l E250 retired DHL vans that can be had. This is a good buy in most cases. If this forum is worth a shit they will pay to wrap my van in MiataTurbo garb. 949, NASA, and Hawk should do the same. If not I will start doing business with Miata.net, Miata Roadster, SCCA, and EBC, lol.

I don't mean that it has to be a Chevy van. Just some sort of work van. I have not done enough actual research to be able to say which models and years to go with. I just know it has to be a v8. I will check out the E250 though and see how cheap they are.

Chevy Astrovan with the tow package. Also its GMC twin, the Safari.

True body-on-frame truck with a van body.

Reasonably comfortable, holds plenty of gear, generous tow capacity. They have been around for many years and there are plenty of good ones on the market.

East to work on, or so I'm told.

Guys that have 'em, swear by 'em.

Remember to budget for towing upgrades you'd want/need, such as a anti-sway weight-distribution hitch, electric brake controller, and tranny cooler.

If it were me, I'd be looking for one with the dutch doors in the back.

I has pickup with topper that can be locked or slept in. It doesn't scare the parents of small children but it costs over $5k.

I hate to say it but an ugly van will be much cheaper than a fancy looking one and they are very practical. I travelled cross country pulling a boat in a 1500 Chevy van years ago, in a v6 Astro van another time, a F-150 another time, a T-100 v6 Toyota pickup, and lately I've been using my Tundra. They all pulled a trailer and they all got me where I was going. Vans have more usable space than trucks. Cool + tow vehicle = $$$$$$ Don't worry about cool. You drive a Miata.
Also remember tow vehicle doesn't always equal v8. Lots of v6 vehicles are rated for towing 5000lbs + and have room to sleep in.

Here's your van:

http://austin.craigslist.org/cto/2722963070.html

Electric brake controller? Are all these parts required even with a "tow package" car. I was looking at some 4runners and they had it.

this tow business is to f'in complicated damn it. I assume the brake controller is for a trailer with its own brakes?

Boom!

http://raleigh.craigslist.org/cto/2704297400.html

I've towed plenty of vehicles and loads that weighed 3 times what your miata weighs without trailer brakes. You would only need them with a huge trailer and I don't think that is what you are hunting.

Part of the vehicle manufacturer's computation for towing capacity includes the vehicle's braking ability.

I will second or third a van. Family owned an early 90's E150 clubwagon w/351 and it towed 4k lbs routinely and slept us all in it one nite.. Id stay away from 4.6 for dedicated tow vehicle.

NC you need brakes on at least one wheel if you're towing a car. I think the trailer weight limit is something like 3500lbs or so. SC you need brakes on ALL axles, so if you run CMP make sure you are set up right.

You need a controller if you run anything with decent brakes, surge brakes don't need a controller but you don't want surge brakes. If towing a single Miata makes you need a sway control/weight control/whatever more than a simple ball hitch you did something wrong or have a really poor tow vehicle.

I tow with a short bed extended cab `98 F150 with a camper top. I could sleep in it if I really wanted to since the camper top gives a good 4-5' of standing room. I can sorta lock stuff up but it's really just a "keep people honest" lock since you can get the top open without too much difficulty when it's locked. Nowhere near as good as a van but if you plan on sleeping in it it's a pretty moot point anyhow.

It pulls like a dream, while driving I can hardly notice the 4k in tow along with whatever extras are in the back. Acceleration is pretty rough though, going to VIR from Durham I can't use overdrive much with the hills on 86 and 119. Going to CMP it's pretty much overdrive the whole way, makes for a nice bump in fuel economy. My whole tow setup cost me <8k with a new trailer. I get 11mpg going to VIR and 14 to CMP.

A 4runner will likely suck, that's a pretty short wheelbase. Wheelbase is very important when trying to avoid the "wag the dog" feeling while towing.

ok, I will look into an astrovan. But only because Mr.T had one for the A-Team.

Thanks for the help Steve, I will contact them soon

Wait a minute, weren't you shit talking us towers at THSCC CMP?

lol what? I want to tow my car, I am jealous if anything. I may have jokingly said you suck for towing though.

Thanks for the advice though, I am hoping to work something out locally and borrow a trailer. One of my coworkers has one, but he doesn't use it frequently.

I have looked at sprinters but they come with tiny diesel engines that have less towing capacity than my 95 S10 Blazer. They get really good fuel economy but after recently doing 2000 miles of towing with a Dodge Ram 3500 and the cost of diesel fuel running around 40 cents a gallon more than premium unleded I’m thinking V8 ford or Chevy Van is the answer. I simply hate dealing with access to stuff in the back of a pickup truck with a canopy on it pickup trucks suck.

Bob

Why?

I can tuck the 4Loko cooler behind the driver so I can drink, tow, and smoke cigars with "Wild Horses" screaming through the baller stereo from my highschool days. I can't wait to get a van.

Yea an Astorvan might do. It has the same 4.3L V6 as my Blazer but the van body is hugely more useful than the the Stupid Useless Vehicle (SUV) body on my Blazer. It’s a really good engine from my experience but it works it pretty hard if you have a heavy trailer. I tow with my Blazer over a fairly good mountain pass around Mount Rainer several times a year on my way to Packwood. The braking capability loaded and towing is a bit sketchy. I have contemplated a motor swap in one to the turbo motor out of a Typhoon or Cyclone.

You will get a few MPG better than with a V8 and it will pull better than a Sprinter but I don’t know if it is worth it to not have the comfort of the V8 and a full size chassis with bigger brakes.

Bob

Hmmm, I can get a locksmith Astro van on the cheap. Can you get Hawk DTC-70s for a van?

On average, what size trailer would I need for the miata? a 15' one?


Also, looking around, it seems like a 98-02 expedition would be a good choice. comes with the transmission cooler already, a v8 and they would be large enough to sleep in for sure. And it's not a creeper van either.


Currently reading about yukons/tahoes also.

You get so much more space in a van. It's the way to go.

Yea, I haven't ruled out the van yet, but from reading on the astro forums they say trans cooler, electronic brake controller, and to be very wary of windy days especially going uphill lol. Very comforting, especially after Bob's experience with the blazer.

How hard would it be to install a trans cooler?

FTFY :giggle::giggle:

I have a 16' and it works fine, you want to make sure the D rings are as close to the front and back of the trailer as you can get them. I have to cross both my fronts and back because the baby teeth on the car are so far out.

15' shouldn't be an issue as long as the D rings are far apart enough. I could measure mine the next time I visit my trailer.

I can do it in 15-20 minutes with standard hand tools. Go to the u-pull-it and get one for $20, mount it to something, hacksaw the hard line, install two hoses and four clamps, profit. You don't need a brake controller or trailer brakes unless you are hauling 5000+ lbs. The Astro pulls trailers just fine. You aren't pulling anything heavy and you aren't working at Rocky Mountain altitudes. You are overthinking this. An Expedition weighs 2000+lbs more and would be a 10mpg nightmare.

Get the white one I linked and put "Joe's Racing" on the side of it.

I will have to use my wheels/tow hook on the front, as I don't have baby teeth there.

Can you point out the d rings? is this an issue because your tie downs are really long?


We shall discuss this further on saturday sir. I are a tow newbie!

The Astro has a 6000LB towing capacity and you have a 2000lb car. You don't need to know much more about that. They don't sway much because they are sprung well and are truck-like. It is rated for 1600lbs of passengers and cargo. That's a lot of tools (or beer).

I will have to admit my open trailer is really light which helps allot. It's single axle just long enough for the wheelbase of a Miata and with no brakes but it’s got big 20 ply rated tires. You can't even buy a single axle car trailer or car trailers without brakes anymore. I notice quite a difference in pulling power if I use a U-haul type trailer, those things weigh as much as my Miata does. I suspect an enclosed trailer would be heavy and not so aerodynamic.

The Vortech 4.3 V6 is acceptable as long as you keep the load down to not significantly more than just the car your towing. FWIW the equivalent Ford V6 from the Explorer of that vintage would struggle a lot more and U-haul wont even rent you a trailer if you were going to pull it with a V-6 Explorer.
Bob

Astro van...hmmmm...you can get those really cheap. I wonder how an Astrovan compares to an E250 4.6 in terms of fuel economy and ease of pulling. I can find a cheap Astro conversion van too.

Astros have truck leaf springs in the back so you can always add a leaf from the u-pull-it if you want it even more robusto. They cost beans at the junkyard.

The EPA site says a 03 Astro gets 21mpg highway and the 03 E250 6 cyl gets 16. The 5.4 gets 15mpg hwy and 12mpg city. They're heavy.

Steve are you towing with an astro van?
http://www.astrosafari.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3379

Anyways, so it looks like if I am getting a trailer it will have brakes anyway. so I am looking at:
Astro van/vehicle
Trans cooler
Tow hitch
electronic brake controller


Anything else I am missing? I am not counting the trailer yet, until I figure out if I am sharing one or not.

candy ass!

lol, suck it.

I camp plenty, but why camp when I can sleep in a car!

I hear its the new homeless shelter! LOL

occupy the track!!!!!

I like one of the first comments in the link.

“IMO, these things will pull way more than they can stop.”

Exactly my impression knowing what my S10 Blazer does! I’ve put in the Hawk Heavy duty pads but doesn’t help much, wonder if there is an aftermarket solution for bigger more powerful brakes.
With my blazer I can regularly get 21mpg on the highway, Towing its more like 15 to 17. I suspect the Astorvan might be about the same maybe slightly less aerodynamic. The 98 Dodge 3500 diesel gets about 16 as long as you keep it under about 65 any faster and the mileage tanks on the dodge how much weight it’s pulling doesn’t seem to matter though.

Bob

So, from reading further about the astrovan, it seems 2003 chevy put rear disc brakes on instead. Is your blazer on rear drum or disc brakes?

I am going to look into the braking, but I think since you don't have trailer brakes, its likely that I will be a bit better off (considering its likely the trailer I will be using will have electronic brakes).

If it takes sleeping on an inflatable
[or is it with an inflatable in that pedo-van?]:jerkit:
you aint drinkin nough beer
LOL

Funny, I don't drink period. biatch!

here's one for you

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...standard=false

Dude, its in Tennessee lol. I am not driving out there! not unless its for a track event. Or maybe to run the dragon.

at that price point a well taken care of 98-02 chevy tahoe or gmc yukon is the best. cheap parts, easy to work on, 16/17mpg towing, etc... my buddy has 278,000mi. on his and has towed across the country dozens of times as recently as 6 months ago.

see, this is whats fucking me over man. we got two schools of thought. astrovan shenanigans (damn pedos) and tahoe/yukon/expedition (guys who don't believe in carbon emissions?)

I am going to go watch tv and not think about this till after the weekend.

Spoken like someone who lives in the flattest state in the nation. :) If there are mountains involved, you want trailer brakes.

Personally I'd buy a late 90s Suburban 2500 before I bought a panel van, there are tons of Suburbans out there that people bought for driving their kids to mall and then dumped when gas got expensive.

The panel van may tow OK, but it's not really good for anything else, IMHO.

--Ian

A panel van seems like it is an order of magnitude easier to load and unload in a hurry with a wide sliding door and if there are no windows you can make things like tire racks high along the side and keep floor space open. The other thing is it is way easier to clean out especially if you get smooth sides and rubber like floors.

Pickup trucks absolutely suck to load and unload and if you have a canopy to keep your stuff enclosed or locked up it is even worse. Put stuff on tailgate crawl in on your hands and knees on a corregated bed that kills your kneecaps shove and arrange heavy stuff while on your hands and knees having no leverage to lift things. Repeat 5 or six times to finish loading. And if you need anything out reverse the process because you cant reach anything until you get everything out of the way.

SUV type vehicles are slightly better because you do have side doors but they don’t open as far and folded up back seats are a pain to deal with.

My Blazer is getting ready to click over 300k miles the most serious motor maintenance was changing the EGR valve twice and I think I changed the spark plugs and wires at about 150k just because. An Astrovan with fewer miles I’m thinking might be high on the list for a low cost replacement when it’s needed.

Bob

I don't really find my pickup hard to load, but I don't have a shell on it. It's a crew cab, though, so I have lockable space in the back seats if I'm not bringing the family along.

A 2-seat panel van isn't going to haul big stuff like a pickup can (lumber, furniture, mulch, piles of rocks), and it's not going to serve temporary kid hauling duty when the minivan is in the shop like a Suburban can. The panel van basically only does one thing, and that's not good enough in my book.

There are late-90s Suburban 2500s with the 454 all over Craigslist for $5000, and if that were my tow vehicle budget, that's what I'd buy. It's gonna be way more comfortable to drive, it'll have a lot more options in it (leather seats, decent stereo, etc), it's probably in better shape (spent the last 12 years driving kids to the mall, not working for a plumber), and it doesn't stick out like a sore thumb and piss off the neighbors when parked outside the house.

--Ian

For me I don't want leather seats or even carpet, it's other use will be hauling hay and Alpacas. I want to be able to stand up in the back and sweep or even hose it out. The and a back seat will install about as fast as you can fold the seats down in an SUV if I need a people hauler. I don't have kids. I live a mile down a privite dirt road my nearest neighbor actually is a plumber who drives a white so I could care less what the neigbors think.

Bob

Second generation (97'-04') Dodge Dakota with a V8 and a bead cap. Sold my 97' in good shape with 118K for $3,700 I believe. Get one that's had the front bushings replaced. They don't get good mileage, but there cheap, plentiful and have very comfortable front seats.

Funny I was just looking throug the wilwood site and It sort of looks like they have front calipers and a DynaPro low profile rear disk conversion kit that would bolt onto an Astrovan.

About $1000 for all 4 corners.

Bob

Vans are massive.

Might not be able wrap it all, but let me know when u be serious. Shuiend and I have talked about this before.

Ontopic......Stay clear of 6.0 diesel ford. Tons of fail. 7.3 ford or cummins. Check all vins

No wrap. You need 80's style van mural.

I've spent the last two seasons towing a 4x6 enclosed trailer to track events all over the west coast with the miata. This winter, I'm building a proper track car so I don't wad up my MSM and that meant getting a real towing solution. I bought a '91 F150 with the 4.9 six for $1300. It is in great shape for what it is and everything works. The 300 six has more torque than any of the small block V8s put in the F150s of that generation and gets better mileage. It will work for now. I had considered vans for the reasons others have mentioned but I really need a truck around the house from time to time. I'm shocked at how much shit has built up in the back yard since I sold my last one ~5 years ago.

I also got a 16' tandem axle trailer for $700. It's built like a brick shithouse but besides being heavier than I need for a ~2100 pound miata it will do fine for years. It has brakes on one axle but I'm not wired for them in the truck yet.

I'm going to get a canopy so I can camp in the bed and have knee pads that should help with the pain of loading/unloading Bob mentioned. The whole thing doesn't need to cost much - I'm set for around $2k. Not perfect, but very functional.
-h