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Old 11-27-2013, 12:32 PM   #61
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That's because people can afford the $600 a month payment, not that they have $10k of expendable cash in the bank.
See, I just don't understand this logic.

If you don't have $10k in the bank, then you most certainly cannot afford a $600/mo car payment.
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Old 11-27-2013, 12:35 PM   #62
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See, I just don't understand this logic.

If you don't have $10k in the bank, then you most certainly cannot afford a $600/mo car payment.
I completely agree.

I guess I should have used the word the can "make" a $600/month payment vs "afford."
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Old 11-27-2013, 12:37 PM   #63
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Though it seems like NA/NB Miata's are getting really popular now because they are 'scene' cars.
Funny thing is, I bought my miata with the sole purpose of "stancing" it, having some 15x8 et0, and hooning around.

When I started actually driving my miata, i was like, why the hell would I ruin this car?

And then I found you guys and steered me straight. It was quite the moment.
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Old 11-27-2013, 01:10 PM   #64
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Ah, so young grasshopper.
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Old 11-27-2013, 01:24 PM   #65
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I cringe at the thought of cars as a "monthly payment".

Q: "How much did that car cost?"
A: "Oh, it's only $400/month!"

"$400/month"? Are you focking kidding me? How do you plan to pay for your car in 6 months when you get laid off? You don't simply stop needing the car. That $400/month doesn't just stop happening. Tell me how much that car really cost you. Why won't you say it? You don't know?

When I hear that, I immediately understand the the "buyer" of the car is unable to comprehend the value of $20,000. Sure, it's easy to comprehend $400 this month, and next month, and the month after that, all the way until the end of eternity... but to really comprehend spending $20,000 at once for a new no-frills car... too many people just don't get it. I can spend 1/5th that, and get more car because I'm not a month-to-month idiot. If I ever spend $20,000 or more on a car, it will be under one of two circumstances: 1. That vehicle must have a primary purpose of creating monetary profit. 2: The total amount spent on the car will be less than or equal to 2 months of after-tax household income.

I absolutely hate monthly payments on anything. I pay a monthly payment on my mortgage because one does not simply find real property that is 5 years old, 100% functional, in a decent area, and valued at 1/5th or less than the cost of a "new" real property. I also make monthly payments on services because I have no other choice. When Sirius radio was in it's relative infancy, they offered a $500 lifetime subscription option. I had very little income, had just graduated college, had $45,000 in student debt, and did not have a very stable job, but I'll be damned if I didn't spend $500 on a lifetime subscription to Sirius radio. Now, 7 years later, the rest of you ******* are paying something like $14/month for SiriusXM. Mine's still "free", and it includes internet radio.

If my internet/cellular/satellite provider walked up to my door today and said "For $5000 we'll give you free high speed internet/talk, text, and data/programming for life" I'd be like "Is there a faster way to pay than giving a check to you?" $5000 is an amount of money that approximately makes financial sense for any of those services at my current monthly rates. Much higher than that, and it soon becomes a "no thank you".
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Old 11-27-2013, 01:34 PM   #66
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I cringe at the thought of cars as a "monthly payment".
The fact that places such as Rent-a-Center exist make me wonder how humanity has managed to get this far.
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Old 11-27-2013, 01:44 PM   #67
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Never underestimate the stupidity of people when it comes to money. That's the way to get rich.
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Old 11-27-2013, 02:05 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by fooger03 View Post
I cringe at the thought of cars as a "monthly payment".

Q: "How much did that car cost?"
A: "Oh, it's only $400/month!"

"$400/month"? Are you focking kidding me? How do you plan to pay for your car in 6 months when you get laid off? You don't simply stop needing the car. That $400/month doesn't just stop happening. Tell me how much that car really cost you. Why won't you say it? You don't know?

When I hear that, I immediately understand the the "buyer" of the car is unable to comprehend the value of $20,000. Sure, it's easy to comprehend $400 this month, and next month, and the month after that, all the way until the end of eternity... but to really comprehend spending $20,000 at once for a new no-frills car... too many people just don't get it. I can spend 1/5th that, and get more car because I'm not a month-to-month idiot. If I ever spend $20,000 or more on a car, it will be under one of two circumstances: 1. That vehicle must have a primary purpose of creating monetary profit. 2: The total amount spent on the car will be less than or equal to 2 months of after-tax household income.

I absolutely hate monthly payments on anything. I pay a monthly payment on my mortgage because one does not simply find real property that is 5 years old, 100% functional, in a decent area, and valued at 1/5th or less than the cost of a "new" real property. I also make monthly payments on services because I have no other choice. When Sirius radio was in it's relative infancy, they offered a $500 lifetime subscription option. I had very little income, had just graduated college, had $45,000 in student debt, and did not have a very stable job, but I'll be damned if I didn't spend $500 on a lifetime subscription to Sirius radio. Now, 7 years later, the rest of you ******* are paying something like $14/month for SiriusXM. Mine's still "free", and it includes internet radio.

If my internet/cellular/satellite provider walked up to my door today and said "For $5000 we'll give you free high speed internet/talk, text, and data/programming for life" I'd be like "Is there a faster way to pay than giving a check to you?" $5000 is an amount of money that approximately makes financial sense for any of those services at my current monthly rates. Much higher than that, and it soon becomes a "no thank you".

What about borrowing money at interest rates that beat real inflation?

While I generally don't like payments there are some times when it isn't the worst thing in the world.

Small Example: The 65" TV in my living room, sure I had the $1500 in cash to buy it outright, but why not take the 0% for 12 months and pay $125 a month while leaving MY money in a money market and continuing to grow.

I appreciate that debt isn't good, but the over-the-top Dave Ramsey approach swings back to far in the other direction, in my humble opinion.

Last edited by z31maniac; 11-27-2013 at 02:47 PM.
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Old 11-27-2013, 02:36 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by z31maniac View Post
What about borrowing money at interest rates that beat real inflation?

While I generally don't like payments their are some times when it isn't the worst thing in the world.

Small Example: The 65" TV in my living room, sure I had the $1500 in cash to buy it outright, but why not take the 0% for 12 months and pay $125 a month while leaving MY money in a money market and continuing to grow.

I appreciate that debt isn't good, but the over-the-top Dave Ramsey approach swings back to far in the other direction, in my humble opinion.
Or a 9month CD or something similar. higher interest and less temptation to spend that monies
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Old 11-27-2013, 03:17 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by z31maniac View Post
What about borrowing money at interest rates that beat real inflation?

While I generally don't like payments there are some times when it isn't the worst thing in the world.

Small Example: The 65" TV in my living room, sure I had the $1500 in cash to buy it outright, but why not take the 0% for 12 months and pay $125 a month while leaving MY money in a money market and continuing to grow.

I appreciate that debt isn't good, but the over-the-top Dave Ramsey approach swings back to far in the other direction, in my humble opinion.
Totally agree with you. Problem is, people don't have self control, so if they do that, they'll think they have more money, then get more stuff, til they're all out of money.
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Old 11-27-2013, 03:44 PM   #71
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Never underestimate the stupidity of people when it comes to money. That's the way to get rich.
You're the reason the Pope hates America.
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Old 11-27-2013, 05:51 PM   #72
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Ah, ha! I have finally found my purpose in life.
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Old 11-27-2013, 09:25 PM   #73
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As a result, although Bell does have a pair of valid CARB EO numbers, they are not longer capable of selling you a kit which complies with these EOs 100%.
Came here to post this.
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Old 11-27-2013, 10:04 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
See, I just don't understand this logic.

If you don't have $10k in the bank, then you most certainly cannot afford a $600/mo car payment.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahagagagagagahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahzhaha!


90% of the US population does not comprehend this. Not only that, but they think that notion is ludicrous.
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Old 11-27-2013, 10:21 PM   #75
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Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahagagagagagahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahzhaha!


90% of the US population does not comprehend this. Not only that, but they think that notion is ludicrous.
Sadly, I suspect that you are correct. Personally, I can't even imagine how I would justify entering into such an arrangement... But then, I'm also utterly flabbergasted by the retail price of new cars in general. I mean... $30,000 for a Toyota Camry? This is like a bizarro-world version of car ownership.


Sidebar: Over the past few years, we've had a couple of "government shutdowns."

Am I the only one who things that shutting down the majority of the services of the Federal government is actually a good thing, and that we ought to do this more often? I would vote for a Presidential candidate who campaigned on that issue alone, even is she was also a gay, communist hooker who drove a Kia and freely admitted to having sex with farm animals and sacrificing kittens to her Lord and Master Satan.
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Old 11-27-2013, 11:21 PM   #76
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Well, it looks like Kraftwerks maybe in the running for a CARB EO for their Rotrex Miata kits.
I just received this via email after I emailed them asking them if they had plans for an EO.

"We really appreciate the fan feedback! Kraftwerks does plan on achieving Carb Legality for its supercharger kits. That is something that is currently in the works. Getting a product Carb approved especially a supercharger kit is very lengthy, it is a long process. I would recommend keeping an eye on the Kraftwerks facebook and instagram page as those are the first places to make any type of announcements pertaining to the kits. Let me know if you have any other questions."

Now, Ive read that they were planning on doing this before, but it never happened. But as I understand, those were with old kits that really sucked and these are of a newer and better design.

As much as Ive read on here about God having a turbo on his personal car, if they do get an EO, ill be purchasing a Rotrex kit from Kraftwerks. Im too old and lazy to be looking for shady smog shops and uninstalling and reinstalling FI kits just to smog my car.
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Old 11-27-2013, 11:27 PM   #77
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Sadly, I suspect that you are correct. Personally, I can't even imagine how I would justify entering into such an arrangement... But then, I'm also utterly flabbergasted by the retail price of new cars in general. I mean... $30,000 for a Toyota Camry? This is like a bizarro-world version of car ownership.
My only sidebar would be to compare the equipment, power, reliability (ie surviving no maintenance), and safety of a modern vehicle to 20 or 30 years vs inflation.

When it comes to vehicles, yes new ones are more expensive, but you get a LOT more for your money.
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Old 11-27-2013, 11:31 PM   #78
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Well, it looks like Kraftwerks maybe in the running for a CARB EO for their Rotrex Miata kits.
I just received this via email after I emailed them asking them if they had plans for an EO.
I'm trying to remember how long they've been claiming that. It's been at least since late 2009. CARB certification isn't easy, but the process takes months, not years.

Four years and counting, I'm not holding my breath. Besides which, the C30-74 centrifugal supercharger featured in the Kraftwerks system combines all the worst qualities of both a turbo and a supercharger in one expensive, torque-deficient package.

As much as I detest the idea on general principle, for a street car I'd steer someone towards an MP62 kit before suggesting a Rotrex / Kraftwerks unit. (Not that I'm condoning the MP62, I'm just saying that it's less awful than the C30. And you can get it with an actual CARB sticker today, not merely a vague promise of one sometime in the future.)
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Old 11-27-2013, 11:35 PM   #79
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When it comes to vehicles, yes new ones are more expensive, but you get a LOT more for your money.
A lot more what?

I ask this seriously. Yes, I know that a new Camry has a heated, power-adjustable, leather-lined prostate massager available as a $2,350 option, but in terms of reliably transporting me from point A to point B, I can't see how it would perform this function any more efficiently than my 23 year old NA with 220,000 miles on it that I paid $800 for. It looks worse than a bag of candied ******** (and doesn't smell much better), but it's just about the most dependable thing I've ever owned.
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Old 11-27-2013, 11:46 PM   #80
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This would be a street car.

Kraftwerks of FFS. Whoever wins, we lose.
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