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Old 11-25-2013, 05:49 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by y8s View Post
3. ????
Anybody live in Nevada or Mexico that'll send me the smog certificates and sticker?
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Old 11-26-2013, 02:42 AM   #42
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Swap in a F20C
Get it BAR'd
???


Profit.
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Old 11-26-2013, 02:46 AM   #43
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CARB is just a nice way of California telling you to get a job and just buy a fast car. Seriously consider that most cars that cost more than their aftermarket parts don't seem to have a problem getting upgrades, or their brand new 911 is fast enough already.
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Old 11-26-2013, 02:48 AM   #44
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Don't worry, I'm sure Cali companies such as Kraftwerks and TrackSpeed have our backs and will be making their FI kits CARB friendly. They want us to support them, then they should support us.









Or not :/
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Old 11-26-2013, 03:47 AM   #45
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CARB is just a nice way of California telling you to get a job and just buy a fast car. Seriously consider that most cars that cost more than their aftermarket parts don't seem to have a problem getting upgrades, or their brand new 911 is fast enough already.
Seriously, this is spot on. My neighbor has a Maserati:
1.) straight piped, on an super aggressive tune
2.) ????
3.) passes emissions
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Old 11-26-2013, 03:48 AM   #46
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Or not :/
Begi supports us more than anybody I know of.
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Old 11-26-2013, 04:46 AM   #47
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Yeah, I have read that they have CARB legal kits, but not a don't know of anyone on any of the major miata forums that has this mythical kit in Cali and passes smog with it :/

As far as I know, there zero CARB legal turbo kits for the Miata in production.

Unless someone from Begi or has direct knowledge that these kits are still approved.

Seems like everyone in Cali bitches about no options, but maybe we are just misinformed and Begi does still indeed provide a CARB legal solution.

Last edited by gtz; 11-26-2013 at 05:30 AM.
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Old 11-26-2013, 05:25 AM   #48
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I believe you have to call and get a sticker from them, according to EO2K.
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Old 11-26-2013, 08:45 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by gtz View Post
Don't worry, I'm sure Cali companies such as Kraftwerks and TrackSpeed have our backs and will be making their FI kits CARB friendly. They want us to support them, then they should support us.









Or not :/
Cali performance companies have your backs when it comes to making your off-road race car faster.

Alternatively, they cater to the OTHER 98% of the states in the country for road going cars.

Or, otherwise alternatively, they cater to the market demands of 88% of US population first. Then, if they feel really lucky, they invest a significant amount of their time and profits into the PBC (Peoples Bureaucracy of Califuckyourcars), and hope they can afford the bribe required to get a CARB approval for their kits, all the while hoping that in the 7 to 10 years it takes, the market doesn't change such that thier 10-15 year breakeven on the process isn't somehow altered because the 10% of california modders who actually give two ***** about CARB compliancy decide to leave the market.

I AM THE 88%!
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Old 11-26-2013, 10:32 AM   #50
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Yeah, I have read that they have CARB legal kits, but not a don't know of anyone on any of the major miata forums that has this mythical kit in Cali and passes smog with it :/
The BEGi system exists in a sort of funky grey area.

Executive Order D-349 (90-93) was issued to Bell back in 1994, and D-349-1 (94-99) was added in 2000. So these EOs are 19 and 13 years old, respectively.

Over that time, Bell has made numerous changes to the design of the kits. They've changed the fuel and ignition management, and switched turbo vendors in the case of the 1.6 kit. They never re-certified the systems using the new parts, so there is now a discrepancy between what's written on the paperwork vs. what's actually delivered in the kits.

As a result, although Bell does have a pair of valid CARB EO numbers, they are not longer capable of selling you a kit which complies with these EOs 100%. Some people claim that this does not matter.

If you want to read the full text of the EOs (they're not long) you can get them directly from the state of California here:

http://arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/devices/eo/D-349.pdf
http://arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/de...eo/D-349-1.pdf




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As far as I know, there zero CARB legal turbo kits for the Miata in production.
Technically, this is correct.
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Old 11-26-2013, 12:43 PM   #51
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According to BEGI they CAN sell you all the parts for the CARB legal kit, or at least thats what they told me last year. The language is vague enough for the 94-99 that BEGI can sell you a kit with a BEGI cast manifold, any Garrett turbo, any "ignition timing retard device" (XEDE will do this) a boost referenced FPR and have the extra injectors set up on a pressure switch, then you technically meet the requirements for the CARB EO and they can sell you a kit with a sticker.

There are a whole host of problems trying to get this to work on a CA Emissions 99 Miata, but simple enough for a Federal Emissions 49 State 99.

The smog shop is required to test the car for emissions and test the emissions components for function, but not check the components of the kit, other than the info that's in the EO. Anything beyond the text and you fail. If for some reason you have a Borg Warner, IHI or china eBay turbo in there bolted to your BEGI kit, you fail. But you could in theory have a Genuine Garrett GT2554 all the way up to a GT3071R and still "pass" per the text.

Obviously extra injectors and FPR would just be window dressing, but would be required to be there to meet the EO.

Again, that's just what Stephanie told me over the phone. This was while I was looking to replace my CA Spec 2000 with a Fed Spec 1999 so I could get THE ONE CARB legal NB trubo kit on the market :(
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Old 11-26-2013, 12:51 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by gtz View Post
  1. Swap in a LSx with cats and emissions gear
  2. Get it BAR'd
  3. ???
  4. Profit.
FTFY, both content and formatting
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Old 11-26-2013, 03:37 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Lexzar View Post
Anybody live in Nevada or Mexico that'll send me the smog certificates and sticker?
You will have problems if you have an out of state plate and keep driving it in CA for extended periods.

My solution avoids that with real CA plates.
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Old 11-26-2013, 03:40 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by gtz View Post
Don't worry, I'm sure Cali companies such as Kraftwerks and TrackSpeed have our backs and will be making their FI kits CARB friendly. They want us to support them, then they should support us.









Or not :/
Lol, ^ is seriously underestimating how difficult and expensive the process is and how long it takes.
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Old 11-26-2013, 03:41 PM   #55
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FTFY, both content and formatting
I was under the impression that there was still no way to get an lsx bar'd due to exhaust manifolds?
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Old 11-26-2013, 04:12 PM   #56
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I was under the impression that there was still no way to get an lsx bar'd due to exhaust manifolds?
It depends on what sacrifices you are willing to make in the footwells.
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Old 11-27-2013, 05:37 AM   #57
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Vortech and now Jackson Racing have EO #s
Innovative Motorsports has theirs pending in the final stages (small shop)

and there are boatloads of turbo kits being made, I didn't even check those.

...all of this for the BRZ/FRS twins :/

So, all kinds of companies are getting EO numbers, just not for our cars. I think that I have learned that if i want to play by Cali rules for aftermarket FI kits, I need a car that isn't 20 years old. Lots of companies could sit there and bitch about it, and then lots of companies just bite the bullet and go through the testing.

Guess its not worth it if our market is too small, but I have no sales data. Though it seems like NA/NB Miata's are getting really popular now because they are 'scene' cars.

BRZ swap anyone ?
Attached Thumbnails
California sucks ass-eo_zps86fa1ab4.jpg  

Last edited by gtz; 11-27-2013 at 06:18 AM.
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Old 11-27-2013, 11:20 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by gtz View Post

Vortech and now Jackson Racing have EO #s
Innovative Motorsports has theirs pending in the final stages (small shop)

and there are boatloads of turbo kits being made, I didn't even check those.

...all of this for the BRZ/FRS twins :/

So, all kinds of companies are getting EO numbers, just not for our cars. I think that I have learned that if i want to play by Cali rules for aftermarket FI kits, I need a car that isn't 20 years old. Lots of companies could sit there and bitch about it, and then lots of companies just bite the bullet and go through the testing.

Guess its not worth it if our market is too small, but I have no sales data. Though it seems like NA/NB Miata's are getting really popular now because they are 'scene' cars.

BRZ swap anyone ?
I don't think it is necessarily because we are a small market; just look at how many miatas you see on the road versus FRS/BRZ's. Instead, I would think it has much more to do with the simple fact that they would be marketing a kit that costs more than the majority of cars it would be intended to fit. Not too many people are willing to plunk down on that kind of investment ratio, at least not nearly as many as would be for the relative kit cost-to-value ratio of the FRS/BRZ. Let's face it, we're mostly a bunch of cheapskates (or we wouldn't be driving these cars in the first place); hardly the most lucrative demographic to be selling to from a kit vendor's viewpoint. Much like when you go fishing, you always head over to where you think the big ones are hiding.
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Old 11-27-2013, 11:29 AM   #59
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I would think it has much more to do with the simple fact that they would be marketing a kit that costs more than the majority of cars it would be intended to fit.
Ding! We have a winner.

I've heard this from a lot of people in the past, and I've never really understood it myself. Seems that I'd be able to afford a $5,000 turbo kit much more easily after spending $4,000 for a car than $35,000.

Still, I can't deny the fact that this mentality seems to drive a lot of purchasing decisions...
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Old 11-27-2013, 11:56 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
Ding! We have a winner.

I've heard this from a lot of people in the past, and I've never really understood it myself. Seems that I'd be able to afford a $5,000 turbo kit much more easily after spending $4,000 for a car than $35,000.

Still, I can't deny the fact that this mentality seems to drive a lot of purchasing decisions...
That's because people can afford the $600 a month payment, not that they have $10k of expendable cash in the bank.
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