In what order should a novice proceed with?
06-12-2022, 02:03 PM
#1
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In what order should a novice proceed with?
I have a 2000 ls with a brp mp62 charger. Stock fueling and injectors. For now I'm not intercooled but I do have all of the piping mocked up so it won't be long to swap that in. I'm currently on an ancient piggyback but I have an ms2 on the shelf and 1000cc injectors (FIC) waiting to be installed.
I'm looking for advice on how I should proceed with installing the megasquirt. keep in mind im a novice. Im open to remote tuning but id like to do some of the work myslef to learn.
Should I just throw everything on get started?
or
Install only the megasquirt
or install megasquirt and injectors and wait to install intercooler?
I'm open to just doing everything in one go but im concerned that itll be a lot of change and cause me issues vs just installing the megasquirt and then adding an intercooler and injectors.
So?
I'm looking for advice on how I should proceed with installing the megasquirt. keep in mind im a novice. Im open to remote tuning but id like to do some of the work myslef to learn.
Should I just throw everything on get started?
or
Install only the megasquirt
or install megasquirt and injectors and wait to install intercooler?
I'm open to just doing everything in one go but im concerned that itll be a lot of change and cause me issues vs just installing the megasquirt and then adding an intercooler and injectors.
So?
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06-12-2022, 03:57 PM
#2
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Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Lansing, MI
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The intercooler can go in whenever, it shouldn't change airflow drastically enough to need major tune changes.
Install the megasquirt first. Use trubokitty basemap. Learn to tune. Ogpedxing has good, detailed videos. Andy whittle is a bit more lecture-y but i found his videos to be the most revolutionary for me despite being non-miata. Carpassion is a good resource, but i find his tuning videos to be somewhat unhelpful. Learning to tune yourself is rewarding, but self-teaching is a big part of it. All the puzzle pieces are out there, you just have to put them together and find what makes the most practical sense to you.
Prioritize startup, idle and transitions between driving and idling to achieve basic drivability, the initial value table is important for that. Autotune VE (paying for tunerstudio is worth every penny) for a while until you consistantly match AFR targets. Smooth the map out by hand via datalogs if you have stubborn cells.
As for injectors, you could install them alongside the MS or not. Personally; I'd get the stock setup running smoothly first because that's what the basemap is made for and settling into the standalone is less steep that way, but depending on how you value your time and your aptitude, starting with them is just a matter of changing your req fuel value.
Install the megasquirt first. Use trubokitty basemap. Learn to tune. Ogpedxing has good, detailed videos. Andy whittle is a bit more lecture-y but i found his videos to be the most revolutionary for me despite being non-miata. Carpassion is a good resource, but i find his tuning videos to be somewhat unhelpful. Learning to tune yourself is rewarding, but self-teaching is a big part of it. All the puzzle pieces are out there, you just have to put them together and find what makes the most practical sense to you.
Prioritize startup, idle and transitions between driving and idling to achieve basic drivability, the initial value table is important for that. Autotune VE (paying for tunerstudio is worth every penny) for a while until you consistantly match AFR targets. Smooth the map out by hand via datalogs if you have stubborn cells.
As for injectors, you could install them alongside the MS or not. Personally; I'd get the stock setup running smoothly first because that's what the basemap is made for and settling into the standalone is less steep that way, but depending on how you value your time and your aptitude, starting with them is just a matter of changing your req fuel value.
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06-12-2022, 05:19 PM
#3
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Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Illinois
Posts: 205
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The intercooler can go in whenever, it shouldn't change airflow drastically enough to need major tune changes.
Install the megasquirt first. Use trubokitty basemap. Learn to tune. Ogpedxing has good, detailed videos. Andy whittle is a bit more lecture-y but i found his videos to be the most revolutionary for me despite being non-miata. Carpassion is a good resource, but i find his tuning videos to be somewhat unhelpful. Learning to tune yourself is rewarding, but self-teaching is a big part of it. All the puzzle pieces are out there, you just have to put them together and find what makes the most practical sense to you.
Prioritize startup, idle and transitions between driving and idling to achieve basic drivability, the initial value table is important for that. Autotune VE (paying for tunerstudio is worth every penny) for a while until you consistantly match AFR targets. Smooth the map out by hand via datalogs if you have stubborn cells.
As for injectors, you could install them alongside the MS or not. Personally; I'd get the stock setup running smoothly first because that's what the basemap is made for and settling into the standalone is less steep that way, but depending on how you value your time and your aptitude, starting with them is just a matter of changing your req fuel value.
Install the megasquirt first. Use trubokitty basemap. Learn to tune. Ogpedxing has good, detailed videos. Andy whittle is a bit more lecture-y but i found his videos to be the most revolutionary for me despite being non-miata. Carpassion is a good resource, but i find his tuning videos to be somewhat unhelpful. Learning to tune yourself is rewarding, but self-teaching is a big part of it. All the puzzle pieces are out there, you just have to put them together and find what makes the most practical sense to you.
Prioritize startup, idle and transitions between driving and idling to achieve basic drivability, the initial value table is important for that. Autotune VE (paying for tunerstudio is worth every penny) for a while until you consistantly match AFR targets. Smooth the map out by hand via datalogs if you have stubborn cells.
As for injectors, you could install them alongside the MS or not. Personally; I'd get the stock setup running smoothly first because that's what the basemap is made for and settling into the standalone is less steep that way, but depending on how you value your time and your aptitude, starting with them is just a matter of changing your req fuel value.
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06-12-2022, 07:47 PM
#4
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Location: Austin, TX
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Depending on how much work you have to put into the basemap VE table to get the car running right, it may be worth to just switch to the new injectors after getting the car running "good enough" on megasquirt. On my car, I had to change the VE table pretty drastically to get the car to run well, and I found it way easier to get things like idle and AE to be smooth with the new injectors over the stock ones. You'll end up having to dial in all of that stuff again even if you get it tuned right with the stock stuff due to better spray patterns, atomization, etc. Something to consider if you find yourself having to mess with the basemap a bunch.
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06-17-2022, 04:40 AM
#5
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Depending on how much work you have to put into the basemap VE table to get the car running right, it may be worth to just switch to the new injectors after getting the car running "good enough" on megasquirt. On my car, I had to change the VE table pretty drastically to get the car to run well, and I found it way easier to get things like idle and AE to be smooth with the new injectors over the stock ones. You'll end up having to dial in all of that stuff again even if you get it tuned right with the stock stuff due to better spray patterns, atomization, etc. Something to consider if you find yourself having to mess with the basemap a bunch.
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06-20-2022, 08:29 AM
#6
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Just to be totally redundant (I'm good at that), start with everything as-is on the base map. Get that to start and idle. Then use VE Analyzer Live (VEAL) while driving and let it tweak the base map. Don't worry about boost, or transitions or even idle quality for now - your goal initially should be to get relatively consistent AFR's during steady-state conditions (I'm assuming that you have a wide-band installed - if not, stop right now and get that done, otherwise you're wasting your time).
How is your startup, does it start like stock? Probably not. You'll probably have to play with some of the cranking/startup settings - most likely the cranking RPM. Is it too rich during and after startup? You'll have to adjust the after-start enrichment (ASE) and/or the warmup enrichment (WUE) or the cranking pulsewidth.
Next, go to your idle; is it stable (i.e. no oscillations), is the AFR near stoichiometric (i.e. around 14.7 or a touch lean), how much spark advance do you need to keep it like that (mine likes 10*)? Get the idle as good as you can get it without venturing into closed-loop idle tuning.
If you're feeling lucky, you can go to the accel enrich section to deal with fueling during transient situations (i.e. accelerating/decelerating). Does the engine bog or stumble when you step (stomp) on the gas? If so, this is were you go to attempt to cure that. BEWARE! This is where many have been lost and given up hope. You can keep it "simple" by using time-based enrichments only and preserve your mental health, dignity and hair. Or you can go "all-in" and try EAE (enhanced accel enrichment). Just know - you've been warned.
Beyond this, how are you controlling boost? Wastegate spring pressure only? Cool! Manual boost control? Sweet! Electronic boost? I'll pray for you.
You'll notice that I haven't spoken about spark maps. You have three choices;
1) Keep the base map spark table and hope for the best
2) Tweak the base map on the street using other people's input, your intuition and a healthy dose of luck
3) Go to a dyno and do it the "right way"
#1 is safe, but where's the fun in that. #3 is good if you have lots of money and a reliable professional. #2 is where most of us (me included) are. All I can say there is "Good luck".
This is the course of action I've taken, and this is just the beginning.
How is your startup, does it start like stock? Probably not. You'll probably have to play with some of the cranking/startup settings - most likely the cranking RPM. Is it too rich during and after startup? You'll have to adjust the after-start enrichment (ASE) and/or the warmup enrichment (WUE) or the cranking pulsewidth.
Next, go to your idle; is it stable (i.e. no oscillations), is the AFR near stoichiometric (i.e. around 14.7 or a touch lean), how much spark advance do you need to keep it like that (mine likes 10*)? Get the idle as good as you can get it without venturing into closed-loop idle tuning.
If you're feeling lucky, you can go to the accel enrich section to deal with fueling during transient situations (i.e. accelerating/decelerating). Does the engine bog or stumble when you step (stomp) on the gas? If so, this is were you go to attempt to cure that. BEWARE! This is where many have been lost and given up hope. You can keep it "simple" by using time-based enrichments only and preserve your mental health, dignity and hair. Or you can go "all-in" and try EAE (enhanced accel enrichment). Just know - you've been warned.
Beyond this, how are you controlling boost? Wastegate spring pressure only? Cool! Manual boost control? Sweet! Electronic boost? I'll pray for you.
You'll notice that I haven't spoken about spark maps. You have three choices;
1) Keep the base map spark table and hope for the best
2) Tweak the base map on the street using other people's input, your intuition and a healthy dose of luck
3) Go to a dyno and do it the "right way"
#1 is safe, but where's the fun in that. #3 is good if you have lots of money and a reliable professional. #2 is where most of us (me included) are. All I can say there is "Good luck".
This is the course of action I've taken, and this is just the beginning.
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06-20-2022, 08:43 AM
#7
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Illinois
Posts: 205
Total Cats: -29
Just to be totally redundant (I'm good at that), start with everything as-is on the base map. Get that to start and idle. Then use VE Analyzer Live (VEAL) while driving and let it tweak the base map. Don't worry about boost, or transitions or even idle quality for now - your goal initially should be to get relatively consistent AFR's during steady-state conditions (I'm assuming that you have a wide-band installed - if not, stop right now and get that done, otherwise you're wasting your time).
How is your startup, does it start like stock? Probably not. You'll probably have to play with some of the cranking/startup settings - most likely the cranking RPM. Is it too rich during and after startup? You'll have to adjust the after-start enrichment (ASE) and/or the warmup enrichment (WUE) or the cranking pulsewidth.
Next, go to your idle; is it stable (i.e. no oscillations), is the AFR near stoichiometric (i.e. around 14.7 or a touch lean), how much spark advance do you need to keep it like that (mine likes 10*)? Get the idle as good as you can get it without venturing into closed-loop idle tuning.
If you're feeling lucky, you can go to the accel enrich section to deal with fueling during transient situations (i.e. accelerating/decelerating). Does the engine bog or stumble when you step (stomp) on the gas? If so, this is were you go to attempt to cure that. BEWARE! This is where many have been lost and given up hope. You can keep it "simple" by using time-based enrichments only and preserve your mental health, dignity and hair. Or you can go "all-in" and try EAE (enhanced accel enrichment). Just know - you've been warned.
Beyond this, how are you controlling boost? Wastegate spring pressure only? Cool! Manual boost control? Sweet! Electronic boost? I'll pray for you.
You'll notice that I haven't spoken about spark maps. You have three choices;
1) Keep the base map spark table and hope for the best
2) Tweak the base map on the street using other people's input, your intuition and a healthy dose of luck
3) Go to a dyno and do it the "right way"
#1 is safe, but where's the fun in that. #3 is good if you have lots of money and a reliable professional. #2 is where most of us (me included) are. All I can say there is "Good luck".
This is the course of action I've taken, and this is just the beginning.
How is your startup, does it start like stock? Probably not. You'll probably have to play with some of the cranking/startup settings - most likely the cranking RPM. Is it too rich during and after startup? You'll have to adjust the after-start enrichment (ASE) and/or the warmup enrichment (WUE) or the cranking pulsewidth.
Next, go to your idle; is it stable (i.e. no oscillations), is the AFR near stoichiometric (i.e. around 14.7 or a touch lean), how much spark advance do you need to keep it like that (mine likes 10*)? Get the idle as good as you can get it without venturing into closed-loop idle tuning.
If you're feeling lucky, you can go to the accel enrich section to deal with fueling during transient situations (i.e. accelerating/decelerating). Does the engine bog or stumble when you step (stomp) on the gas? If so, this is were you go to attempt to cure that. BEWARE! This is where many have been lost and given up hope. You can keep it "simple" by using time-based enrichments only and preserve your mental health, dignity and hair. Or you can go "all-in" and try EAE (enhanced accel enrichment). Just know - you've been warned.
Beyond this, how are you controlling boost? Wastegate spring pressure only? Cool! Manual boost control? Sweet! Electronic boost? I'll pray for you.
You'll notice that I haven't spoken about spark maps. You have three choices;
1) Keep the base map spark table and hope for the best
2) Tweak the base map on the street using other people's input, your intuition and a healthy dose of luck
3) Go to a dyno and do it the "right way"
#1 is safe, but where's the fun in that. #3 is good if you have lots of money and a reliable professional. #2 is where most of us (me included) are. All I can say there is "Good luck".
This is the course of action I've taken, and this is just the beginning.
I think I'm going to start maybe with stock injectors and then once I get a good grip on things swap them for my bigger ones. I'm almost done with the install I just have to put the intercooler and iat sensor in and I'll begin the tuning stuff which I'm not looking forward to. I really want to try and do most the tuning myself but if I'm struggling then I will find a good tuner. Probably have to do remote tuning since I have no leads on anyone local. Kinda off topic but one thing I'm already dreading is trying to tune the idle dip or stall that comes with hotside supercharger and intercoolers. I would like not have to do tue dual throttle body method if I can help it but there's mixed information if you can really tune that out. Some say it's a band aid (dual tb) for proper tuning.
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