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Originally Posted by jacob300zx
(Post 1077427)
.If a potential customer can take a stone stock miata, order your kit, and have the potential to be competitive on track.
What you, and a lot of other folks seem to miss, is the design goal for the tecna: Best possible ride quality on moderately lowered street Miatas. That's it. They are not race shocks. I don't care if guys win Miata Challenge on them or not. What I do care about is drivers loving the ride quality on their daily commute. If you folks love the ride quality, we have succeeded in delivering on our promise. Many of us now have more than one Miata. One that mainly gets driven while wearing a helmet. The other while sipping a latte on the way to work. That daily gets more use as it's utility increases. Comfy stock seats with foamectomy, functioning cruise, A/C and power windows, nice sound system, few rattles, good gearing, quiet and a buttery ride that soaks up everything you throw at it but still handles well. Personally, I like a stock midpipe/muffler with an RB header. No drone but a pleasant muted growl when you stomp on it. That daily is what the tecna are designed for. The tecna handle well on track, much better than stock but that is merely a happy by product of good bump travel, low hysteresis and well matched damping/spring rates. Not the primary design goal. Track focused coilovers should have adjustable damping in my opinion. |
I think your missing my point. You already have all of the hardware, software, development, manpower to offer the product suggested. I'm talking about selling your "street Tecna" just as described, and also selling a "HPDE Tecna" running the same body, helpers, hats. Only difference would be valving and a front spring change. To keep it from competing with the Xida you sell it at the same price at 1899 as the "HPDE KIT". IMO someone looking at the Xida is upgrading a current setup and would already have sways, brakes, etc. I think your underestimating how many people would pick the easy button on a HPDE kit.
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Originally Posted by emilio700
(Post 1077475)
Many of us now have more than one Miata. One that mainly gets driven while wearing a helmet. The other while sipping a latte on the way to work. That daily gets more use as it's utility increases
Now I can only think "How did it come to this..." :ugh: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1385580057 Techna's for the silver car or CNC head for the green car... hmmm |
Originally Posted by jacob300zx
(Post 1077427)
Emilio can I make a suggestion? The goal of these coilovers is an OTS "street" replacment coilover. Knowing who your working with on these I am of the understanding that you can spec different valving and spring rates. You could also offer the "All of it, Tecna HPDE starter kit"
Tecna coilovers 550/325, stage 1 brake kit with XP10/8 pre-bedded, SuperMiata sway kit for 1899.00 only option is rollbar for 2349.00. Recomended for 200 treadware or higher street tires. When the person moves up through the HPDE ranks and wants to run say TT with slicks they would just need to swap in some Xida's with higher rates and sell off there Tecna's. You could have the coilovers pre setup to the correct height/corner balance so all the dummy has to do is bolt them in and get alignment. The average Joe could swipe his credit card, items delivered 4 days later, spend Saturday in his garage with hand tools, and have a track ready car. These wouldn't compete with the Xida line because the only way you can get them is with the whole 1899.00 order, the rates/valving is too soft for a serious track day enthusiast/competitor on slicks, no dampening adjustment for rain/conditions. Benefits Extra $200 Profit on Track Tecna HPDE kit One stop shop Brand loyalty Forum members can now answer any newb miata guy's track day questions with a link to 949racing.com's HPDE starter kit I would also suggest detailed instructions for the buyer and alignment shop. I would also run this in Miata Challange and win street class. If a potential customer can take a stone stock miata, order your kit, and have the potential to be competitive on track you would have a win. Also a newb would not have the chance to screw anything up because you picked all the parts for him. The only thing close to this has users who failed to complete their "race" giving testimonials and has no track data to back up anything. This would seriously cut out the need for a miata newb to spend days reading posts and hearing suggestions from questionable sources. This is the definition of the easy button. haha, fuckin brilliant dude. Seriously, I think its a good idea. Just recolor the HPDE tecna's to orange or something so people can't confuse them with the different valved street version. I seriously spent a month reading about suspension, spring rates, sway bars, blah blah blah before I bought my current setup. I still made msitakes (NB Bilsteins for example are just not ideal for ride height). oh well, here is to helping others make the right decision. |
Originally Posted by jacob300zx
(Post 1077504)
I think your missing my point.
If and when we do an entry level track/autocross focused coilover, it will be damping adjustable and monotube. Track suspension should have adjustable damping IMO. |
Originally Posted by emilio700
(Post 1077518)
Nope. But thanks for the advice anyway.
If and when we do an entry level track/autocross focused coilover, it will be damping adjustable and monotube. Track suspension should have adjustable damping IMO. Beginners like to set it and forget it. |
Originally Posted by Ryan_G
(Post 1077523)
As a beginner at the track I can promise you that I wouldn't touch the adjustable dampening because I don't have enough experience or knowledge to understand what I am doing. If I did I would be looking at Xidas.
Beginners like to set it and forget it. |
Originally Posted by Ryan_G
(Post 1077523)
As a beginner at the track I can promise you that I wouldn't touch the adjustable dampening because I don't have enough experience or knowledge to understand what I am doing. If I did I would be looking at Xidas.
Beginners like to set it and forget it. Damping rates that work well on track are generally far stiffer than that with which the best street ride is achieved. I make 5-6 clicks change on my daily (the 95R) between street and track. Ride is too choppy on the street when set for the track. Conversely, the soft settings that are so nice on the street are too floaty for track use. Thus, adjustable damping. Therefore, we will never offer a non adjustable twin tube tecna that is aimed at track use. |
Jake has a very good idea, but I differ on the details. An HPDE model of the damper is unnecessary because HPDE isn't racing.
A package of "HPDE prep" is something I would have bought for my second Miata immediately, which is an 01 I specifically bought for HPDE. Now, having already bought rotors, lines, fluid, clutch line, alignment bolts, etc etc from emilio I no longer would purchase a package. I also recently bought the FM Vmaxx Stage 2 package and I was not happy with the on-track handling or the ride on the way there (5 hour drive). So 0 for 2. If these Tecnas give a good ride, at least it would have gone 1 for 2! HPDE is not racing and the majority of people drive their cars to and from the events. If there was a package to replace the old blown-out shocks, inadequate sway bars, and old brakes/fluid of a miata intended to be a HPDE/fun car, it would sell. A comfy ride on the way there would be icing on the cake. All this being said, I am very interested in buying these for my street MSM, which is emilios intended application, so maybe I should stop talking now. |
I think there are several distinct crowds of drivers. Daily driver, dual duty, track only
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Originally Posted by jacob300zx
(Post 1078166)
I think there are several distinct crowds of drivers. Daily driver, dual duty, track only
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Originally Posted by Chilicharger665
(Post 1077715)
Jake has a very good idea, but I differ on the details. An HPDE model of the damper is unnecessary because HPDE isn't racing.
A package of "HPDE prep" is something I would have bought for my second Miata immediately, which is an 01 I specifically bought for HPDE. Now, having already bought rotors, lines, fluid, clutch line, alignment bolts, etc etc from emilio I no longer would purchase a package. I also recently bought the FM Vmaxx Stage 2 package and I was not happy with the on-track handling or the ride on the way there (5 hour drive). So 0 for 2. If these Tecnas give a good ride, at least it would have gone 1 for 2! HPDE is not racing and the majority of people drive their cars to and from the events. If there was a package to replace the old blown-out shocks, inadequate sway bars, and old brakes/fluid of a miata intended to be a HPDE/fun car, it would sell. A comfy ride on the way there would be icing on the cake. All this being said, I am very interested in buying these for my street MSM, which is emilios intended application, so maybe I should stop talking now. |
For track use the Teins are a decent intermediate step down from Xidas.
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What would be the limit for upping the spring rate on these?
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Originally Posted by etikoner
(Post 1079569)
What would be the limit for upping the spring rate on these?
There is no real "limit." When setting up a car, you "spring it" first. Then run the best shocks you can, second. |
Originally Posted by concealer404
(Post 1079571)
There is no real "limit."
When setting up a car, you "spring it" first. Then run the best shocks you can, second. |
Presuming these shocks aren't meant to be revalved- what's the highest spring rate the stock valving can accept?
Hope that makes sense lol |
Originally Posted by etikoner
(Post 1079576)
Presuming these shocks aren't meant to be revalved- what's the highest spring rate the stock valving can accept?
Hope that makes sense lol |
I may be totally wrong, but if they are valved for 400/275 or so, putting stiffer springs on won't necessarily make them faster on the track.
And if you're gonna custom valve shocks for a spring rate, that's what Bilsteins are for. |
Originally Posted by etikoner
(Post 1079576)
Presuming these shocks aren't meant to be revalved- what's the highest spring rate the stock valving can accept?
Hope that makes sense lol They're set up to handle 400/275. That's what they'll be great at. Anything different will be a compromise. It may be faster, it may be slower. There's not a magical number for shocks at which they're all like "OH HAIILLLLL NAW MAN I'M OUT!" |
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