Teins are threaded bodies AFAIK

 

Indeed. Thanks for the heads up guys

 

Having similar spring rates having similar damping characteristics.

If we could just bolt on cheap Teins and get similar results we might be doing it.

 

I understand there is huge global issue right now but just wondering if anyone has had success lately communicating with Maruha? I'm ready to get started ordering all my goods for the billies but the tops hats are my missing piece. I have a NB2 so not sure what other options of comparable (for top hats that is). Priced out there are almost the exact price of the Meister Zeta CRD so i might just do that.

Do you need extended tophats for the front as well? If I only needed them for the rear, I could just order these and be done with it. https://www.good-win-racing.com/Mazd.../61-1842B.html

 

@sixshooter yeah agreed that spring rates by themselves do not provide the whole package of the dumping characteristics. I was looking for an opinion on the Tein's spring rates, in order to use them as parts later on.

My point is that the DIY (ebay or not) parts do not come cheap, at least in my area/country. Also shipment is an issue. So I'd rather get the Teins now, which are also in stock and use as many parts as possible from them in order to do a DIY Bilstein later on.

 

Tein use 70mm springs. Generally not compatible with spring locators and perches from typical Bilstein 63mm/2.5" coil over conversions.

 

Ok good to know thanks. Damn this plan of mine keeps hitting issues :P

 

It's good to put your location in your profile so it shows up under your screen name so we can tailor our responses to better meet your needs. Someone who has already faced these issues may have suggestions of use to you.

 

Have been going through my notes (including this thread) trying to determine how much travel I need. Found that the bump limit is 11" front & 9.5" rear (front limited by tires contacting the inner fender, rear limited by upper a-arm contacting the frame, measurements refer to wheel center to fender). The rear sounds reasonable, but the front seems a bit high (although it was measured in an MSM according to my notes, which may mean 17" tires, which are taller by 10mm compared to my 205/50/15s). Can anyone confirm (or prove wrong) these numbers? I would love to avoid taking mine apart to find out....

 

You can't really take anyone else's numbers for that, if you are trying to squeeze every last mm of travel. Tire brand, wheel width, wheel offset, camber all factor in. This assuming the same size 17" tire which not everyone runs. If you don't want to do anywork, then just stick to OEM length shocks and OEM diameter tires on OEM width/offset wheels.

The way we do it is to simply assemble without the springs. Compress with floor jack while car is on hoist so we can turn front wheels and see what hits where. Anything shorter than OEM length shocks in front will usually have tires into the liners regardless of tire/wheel size or alignment.

 

Thanks Emilio! It seems like I will have to go that route after all...

 

So I've spent god knows how much time over the past week researching suspension that I'm feeling bad for neglecting my family. I've gone from being suggested and strongly considering FM springs, to Tein, to trying to finalize the Bilstein Baller setup . I've gone through this thread and countless other threads regarding the Bilsteins and starting to hit analysis paralysis as there is such a wide range of answers from 320lb rates being the sweet spot, to 550lb being to soft and 700lb being ideal - yikes. At the risk of getting flamed, I'm hoping I can get confirmation on my setup

2001 with 140k on what may be original suspension. Will be running 15x8 Falken Azenis. Car is a weekend warrior for spirited drives, autox, and I'll be trying to get some track days in. Not a daily so I don't need soft FM rates as far as I'm concerned , and 90% of drive time will be on the streets of NJ/NY State. Front fender currently sits at 13" high and lowest I'd want to go down to 12" - 12.25, but no lower. I already ordered the NB B6 (because of the FM spring recommendation), which I'm hoping isn't a mistake. From my part list, I think the spring choice is really what I need verification on

Planned part list:
Bilstein NB B6
Allstar 5" or 5x Racing sleeves and collars (prefer to support small business)
RideTech 70010828 spring washers (4 pieces)
ES 9.6103G Coil spring isolators (4 pc - 2.187 ID)
Aldan American 6" 550lb for front (was originally going to go with Summit 7" 550lb for front but seems like 6" is recommended. Is this brand acceptable or can I stick with the 7"? Haven't seen much talk about them but that's what's available on Summit right now)
Summit Racing 7" 350lb for rear
Original stock NB Top hats with new OEM bushings/rubber. If I need more travel I'll consider ISC 1" hats in the rear.
URO Mini Cooper bump stops 55mm (Plans to "cycle" the suspension to see how much to trim - also not completely sold on this and realize I may be being cheap bout the bump stops)
"glue" for spring isolators to top hats (i can figure this out on my own)

Anything glaringly obvious that I need to do more research on?

 

Just my muddy thoughts on your spring rates. I'm running 550 lb up front on MSM Bilsteins. Its a harsh setup for the street. Not painful, but definitely on the far edge of what I am ok driving. I sometimes wish I had gone softer and NEVER wish I had gone stiffer. I used 6" springs and am happy with how much adjustment I have left with them (both up and down), although I went nearly racercar low.

 

I'd suggest B8s over B6. You will need, not optional, extended hats in the rear. Fronts highly recommended.

Hyperco springs are cheap on ProPartsUSA. Also recommended, but not essential.

List otherwise at least looks well thought out, and that's most of the battle. Might not get it right for your tastes the first time, but this is allllll just a guide.

Also: I don't mess with spring washers. Didn't really see the point, haven't seen any issues from not having them.

 

Got it. Are you saying I'll need extended hats because of the B6, or just in general. I'll look into just sourcing the ISC hats now. 1", correct?

I'm going to look more into the B6 vs B8 situation. I may have been recommended the B6 because a user was suggesting FM springs and them being an "insignificant drop". But even if they dropped the car .5" front, I'm only really considering another 1/4" or 1/2" at the most. Or does the recommendation for B8 come down to shorter piston rod length and the springs seating.

 

I"m saying you'll need extended hats because it's just a thing you'll need when you lower a car on Bilsteins.

I wouldn't use ISC hats either, there are better on the market now. Maruha, Diftech, Goodwin/FEAL, etc.

I like B8 because the valving feels more betterly.

 

Stock or aftermarket sways?

Tires and usage are prime drivers in the selection process. What's those tires and that usage you are not going to need something as tight as a 550 pound spring. You just won't. I would consider a 7-inch 400 on the front for those street tires and street usage.

And like Ben said, B8 valving.

 

Stock sways for now but certainly considering a aftermarket front sway for the future after I get an idea what the car needs. Interesting take on lowering the spring rate, I'll look into it.

 

Final question before I place the order. The origins of the bilstein baller setup seeems to have originated from using cheapo Ebay Coilovers for $50 - keeping the sleeves and tossing the springs. Is there a reason we don't do that anymore and instead spend $120-$140 on the sleeves. Is it quality control issue and slack between sleeve body/shock bod, is it that the Allstar/5x etc sleeves have a lip that lock in the circlip? If that's the case, definitely seems worth it to me.

 

The sleeves weren't particularly nice, and they sat on top of the circlips, rather than over them. Lots of reports of them blowing past the circlip, which is a bad time.