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Old 04-28-2014, 05:30 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Failure View Post
The problem as I understand it is the other way around. I'm not saying they don't rotate as they compress, just that preventing them from twisting shouldn't be a problem. It's causing them to twist that's the issue.
Huh?
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Old 04-28-2014, 09:42 PM   #82
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I'm sensing feature creep on poverty shock packages that involved someone using a grinder and duct tape.
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Old 04-28-2014, 11:29 PM   #83
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Subed for new project
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Old 04-28-2014, 11:37 PM   #84
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The thrust bearings on the spring perches are a must on cars that run front struts where the shock rotates as you steer and the top hat is stationary, it probably helps keep everithing working without much bind as the suspention travels and makes it easy to adjust ride height without fighting the spring, but I doubt that it has a big overall impact.
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Old 04-29-2014, 12:19 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bahurd;11an 226
Huh?
Axial loads cause torsional stress on the spring. Torsional stress can cause the spring to increase or decrease in diameter, changing the spring rate. It's not really an issue because the deformation is minute, and because it's just part of the dynamics of a coil spring. I imagine that keeping the ends of the spring bound on the perches could even eliminate the issue. Or it could cause scraping against the perch if the torsional load exceeds the friction between the spring and the perch, which is what the spring isolator prevents.

The thrust bearing is there to prevent torsional loads caused when one perch is rotated relative to the other, such as when steering with a strut type suspension or rotating the perch. The only time our perches will twist is when the ride height is adjusted, and as long as you take the load off the perch when you do it, you're not going to twist the spring.

So we don't really need the torrington bearings, they're more of a strut thing. The spring isolators could potentially be beneficial, but I've seen several people say that they've ran without them with no issue and no one say they've ran without them and experienced scraping sounds during suspension compression. I assume this means that on the scale of the springs we typically use, friction between the spring and the perch is enough to cancel out any twisting caused by torsional stress on the compressed spring.

I'm not sure all of that actually made any sense, but it seems a shame to delete it after spending the time to type it out on my phone. Take it as you will.
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Old 04-29-2014, 07:21 AM   #86
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Strut cars dont need torrington bearings either. if they have properly designed upper strut mounts that let the upper spring perch and shock rod spin with the rest of the shock body.
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Old 04-29-2014, 08:45 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
Strut cars dont need torrington bearings either. if they have properly designed upper strut mounts that let the upper spring perch and shock rod spin with the rest of the shock body.

This. I don't run them on my car. Either of them, actually.
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Old 04-29-2014, 09:29 AM   #88
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Maybe this can show how the bearings will benefit by keeping the spring end from binding on the aluminum perch.

It's a company advertisement but does a good job of showing what happens to the end of a coil spring when you compress it.


I imagine running Swift or Energy isolators can accomplish the same thing. Or nothing... whatever does it for you.
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Old 04-29-2014, 09:33 AM   #89
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Looks like I'm proven correct again.
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Old 04-29-2014, 09:36 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
Looks like I'm proven correct again.
Easier to show it than show the calculation...
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Old 04-29-2014, 12:15 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bahurd View Post
Maybe this can show how the bearings will benefit by keeping the spring end from binding on the aluminum perch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
Looks like I'm proven correct again.
I stated in two separate posts that this *does* happen. But what is the problem with the springs binding during compression?
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Old 04-29-2014, 02:27 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Failure View Post
I stated in two separate posts that this *does* happen. But what is the problem with the springs binding during compression?
Well, if the springs "bind" then the rate isn't consistent is it. If the spring twists under compression then it also needs to "untwist" when going back to it's free state. So anything done to help free the movement of the spring during this would help make for more consistent spring rates.

Thrust bearings or plastic isolators would help accomplish this.

Right?
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Old 04-29-2014, 03:07 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sixshooter View Post
I'm sensing feature creep on poverty shock packages that involved someone using a grinder and duct tape.
QFT.
Will your lap times drop because you have bearings under the springs?
Highly unlikely.

Will your swagger increase when people see them (and helper springs for that matter) when they peer into your wheel wells?
Most likely.

Save the $$$ and put it towards something that will show bigger gains in your lap times... like better tires.
Or. Pimp out your poverty shocks and post pics all over CR.
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Old 04-29-2014, 03:09 PM   #94
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For like $26 I mean really? Find me tires worth buying that cost $26 a pair. Its a cheap way to "do it right".
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Old 04-29-2014, 03:10 PM   #95
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So... $52 for 4? Do you still want 4? I r cornfuze.
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Old 04-29-2014, 03:27 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bahurd View Post
If the spring twists under compression then it also needs to "untwist" when going back to it's free state.
If they're bound, they won't twist. But I'm not saying it's a bad idea to use thrust bearings. I'm just not convinced that they're necessary (all reports seem to indicate otherwise), and by the time you add up all the thrust bearings and spring isolators and spherical mounts and helper springs and $30/corner bumpstops and other cool **** that it would be awesome to have, you're squarely in "should have gotten a revalve instead" territory. And if you pay for a revalve as well, you're creeping into "should have just bought Xidas and been done with it" territory. What's the fascination with spending more money than necessary on something that's interesting because it's comparatively cheap?
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Old 04-29-2014, 03:32 PM   #97
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Well... whether you revalve or not, you're still going to be using the $18/corner bumpstops that we're using.


But if you could point me in the direction of some super pimptastic $30/corner bumpstops, that'd be awesome.



I'm unsure what sort of logic fallacy shows that a revalve makes the other fun toys un-useful.
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Old 04-29-2014, 03:36 PM   #98
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I only paid $48 shipped per set of four, but I bought 14 of them: One for the top AND bottom of each spring, one behind each brake disk, one behind my steering wheel, and one for the bottom of my cup-holder. My slushy spins like a disco-ball when I'm doing madd skidds down the mountain passes.

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Old 04-29-2014, 03:43 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrambles View Post
I only paid $48 shipped per set of four, but I bought 14 of them: One for the top AND bottom of each spring, one behind each brake disk, one behind my steering wheel, and one for the bottom of my cup-holder. My slushy spins like a disco-ball when I'm doing madd skidds down the mountain passes.

Your proximity to me makes my happiness in your post even greater.

10/10, would read again.
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Old 04-29-2014, 03:43 PM   #100
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According to Penske information as of ca. 15 years ago, the twisting force from the spring causes a sideways force on the piston that increases hysteresis of the shock.
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