Chassis stiffening - which parts are good? - Page 9 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 10-03-2009, 09:49 PM   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Amporful View Post
You guys think thats something, wait until you add a butterfly section. You'll notice a change driving up your driveway....If its on a hill atleast
Damn you, My driveway is a very steep hill. I had no plans on getting a butterfly brace. Until......

Did you do frame rails then butterfly, or at the same time. Please tell me it was at the same time so that I can convince myself that the gain adding just butterfly brace won't be worth the cost.
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Old 10-04-2009, 03:02 AM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djp0623 View Post
Damn you, My driveway is a very steep hill. I had no plans on getting a butterfly brace. Until......

Did you do frame rails then butterfly, or at the same time. Please tell me it was at the same time so that I can convince myself that the gain adding just butterfly brace won't be worth the cost.
It was not at the same time. I did the butterfly two months later and the gains were even more than what just the rails did.

Last edited by Sam Amporful; 10-04-2009 at 04:44 PM.
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Old 10-04-2009, 01:50 PM   #163
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Did anyone ever figure out if FM's butterfly brace would work with stein's rails?
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Old 10-05-2009, 06:44 PM   #164
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I kinda' like my Racing Beat crossbrace that mounts just behind the engine. No more door buzzer going off when I round and uneven corner. Unfortunately, I have to keep it very tight or it shifts and makes a clunking noise.
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Old 10-05-2009, 07:16 PM   #165
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Seam welding didn't make it far in this discussion.

I've got my interior apart right now and thinking of stitching up the door sill and up the rear. Anyone done it? Is it worth the wire wheeling then prepping then painting?
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Old 10-05-2009, 07:17 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by wayne_curr View Post
Seam welding didn't make it far in this discussion.

I've got my interior apart right now and thinking of stitching up the door sill and up the rear. Anyone done it? Is it worth the wire wheeling then prepping then painting?
if i had the skills i would do it.
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Old 10-05-2009, 07:29 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by tyson87 View Post
if i had the skills i would do it.
Ya **** it, i'm just gonna do it. I have absolutely no other bracing other than my rollbar so if it makes a difference i'll report back. Actually i'll report back either way.
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Old 10-06-2009, 01:14 AM   #168
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Default Stitch welding? **** YEAH do it

It makes a HUGE difference in stiffening the chassis. 2/3'rdsCobra did his when he stripped the car about 5 years ago. I drove his car and have ridden in it quite a few times and I am always amazed how stiff it is. The only other mods he added since was the FM frame raills +bfly brace, and a rollbar. Prior to the FM braces the car was stiff as hell, in fact it was way stiffer than my '93 is/was, with the following braces/mods:
  1. HD DD sport rollbar
  2. Okuyama triangular STB, tied into firewall(STIFF AS HELL)
  3. FM front subframe brace
  4. Canon rear subframe brace
  5. Okuyama rear stb(doesn't do much IMO)
  6. FM frame rails + bfly brace

Flyin' Miata : Tech: Seam welding

Anyhow, if you have a welder, GO for it dude. I had TCdesigns stitch weld up the ying yang on my track beast and I also had him tie the rollcage into the firewall, the A pillars, and the doorsills. It is indeed a stiffy

Quote:
Originally Posted by y8s View Post
all these devices that connect the drivetrain (trans, motor, diff) to the chassis seem to **** in the face of the intentions of the miata's power plant frame.
In reference to the Okuyama triangular rear subframe brace, I'm with Matt. It may be mainly to help reduce vibration(ie, for comfort), but there are likely other reasons.

There is a reason the ladder brace added on the '94 models does NOT tie into the PPF. Note, this ladder brace can be added on 90-'93 models and it is only
$165 from MazdaSpeedMotorsports(god damn I love the racer discount), list is $276!

After talking to several SM racers I added one on my '91 track beast, all it required were to add two threaded tabs to be welded to the rear-most ctrl arms for the rear bolts and two recessed bolt plates for the front bolts. The rear tabs were actually added on all 1993 models, but they never installed the ladder brace until '94, go figure...

In fact, I just ordered another one for my LE and it will be here tomorrow
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Old 10-06-2009, 10:40 AM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minime View Post
In reference to the Okuyama triangular rear subframe brace, I'm with Matt. It may be mainly to help reduce vibration(ie, for comfort), but there are likely other reasons.

There is a reason the ladder brace added on the '94 models does NOT tie into the PPF. Note, this ladder brace can be added on 90-'93 models and it is only
$165 from MazdaSpeedMotorsports(god damn I love the racer discount), list is $276!

After talking to several SM racers I added one on my '91 track beast, all it required were to add two threaded tabs to be welded to the rear-most ctrl arms for the rear bolts and two recessed bolt plates for the front bolts. The rear tabs were actually added on all 1993 models, but they never installed the ladder brace until '94, go figure...

In fact, I just ordered another one for my LE and it will be here tomorrow
After thinking about this more in my spare time (what??), I've come to the conclusion that the lower rear triangle brace that mounts to the subframe and PPF bolt may have "Good Intentions".

But it needs bushings on the order of size of the stock diff wings, not those little tiny 22mm socket sized ones.

In reality, it's no different than the triangulation from the diff mounts to the PPF that the diff is. I'm just not sure what movement it's preventing (direction or rotation or whatever).
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Old 10-06-2009, 03:40 PM   #170
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Well bummer. I laid a couple of test beads on a piece of scrap then moved over to the car and went t make my first stitch bead and....the wire is jammed :(

No time to fix the welder right now. Going to take two this weekend and take pictures.
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Old 10-06-2009, 04:49 PM   #171
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Seam welding would be my #1 choice for stiffening. It's just a hell of a lot more work than bolt ons. I've never heard a single report from someone who did it that it didn't completely change the car.
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Old 10-06-2009, 05:10 PM   #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cueball1 View Post
Seam welding would be my #1 choice for stiffening. It's just a hell of a lot more work than bolt ons. I've never heard a single report from someone who did it that it didn't completely change the car.
I'm curious as to how it's a "hell of a lot more work" than, say, "bolting on" frame rails after you've drilled 5000 holes for the bolts in the floor board after removing your interior. With the plastic and rubber gone from the door sills, the seams are right there. I had it all wire wheel'd down to metal and went to make my first arc when the welder stopped feeding wire :(

It honestly seems like the easiest solution of them all if it really works...
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Old 10-06-2009, 05:12 PM   #173
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I think he's saying doing ALL the seams per the FM tech page would be a ****-ton of work.
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Old 10-06-2009, 05:13 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by gospeed81 View Post
I think he's saying doing ALL the seams per the FM tech page would be a ****-ton of work.
Ohhh, no doubt...that'd be a huge PITA when you consider having to remove suspension components and that big thing, I forget what its called.
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Old 10-06-2009, 05:34 PM   #175
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My frame rails took about an hour, maybe an hour and a half to install. Add to pulling seats and carpet for frame rails...

removing interior trim, seals, wheels, sanding, refinishing, buying a welder, taking classes or doing lots of practice, etc. If I had the skills and equipment it would have been a no brainer. Without them, bolt ons like I've done make more sense.

Last edited by cueball1; 10-06-2009 at 06:34 PM.
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Old 10-06-2009, 05:49 PM   #176
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holy hell, only an hour!? Thats impressive. I'd expect it'd take me about an hour to do the seam welding as well.

As far as welding practice, I had a friend show me how to weld over the weekend when we added a diagonal to my rollbar. I've laid down 6 or 7 beads total in my welding experience including one pipe that I joined together for practice. If you can write your name in the snow, you can weld like a pro
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Old 10-06-2009, 05:57 PM   #177
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What kind of a welder is required for seam welding?
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Old 10-06-2009, 06:04 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by mgeoffriau View Post
What kind of a welder is required for seam welding?
Pretty much anything i'd think other than maybe a stick welder. Even a cheap-o flux cored welder would work.
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Old 10-06-2009, 06:38 PM   #179
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any light gauge welder. and a wire brush. and some primer and paint. leave it as-welded and you might as well have just disassembled the seams completely after about 6 months.
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Old 11-04-2009, 01:55 AM   #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BradC View Post
Sitting on desk. Dimensionally, yes it should fit. Once I can get the car up I will test fit it. Bachelor party @ NJMP over the weekend, no time to test.
Over one month later... FAIL
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