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Old 08-17-2008, 08:05 PM   #1
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Default Help me pick a clutch...

So yesterday I was on my way to get my car dyno'd when my clutch started slipping in fourth or fifth at WOT from 4k rpm. It's about time considering I am putting 12psi through the stock clutch, its held up long enough I think.

The kit will definitely be from ACT. The question is which clutch disc do I want.
The choice is either the HDSS(organic street disc) or the HDG6(sprung 6 puck).

Something to keep in mind. I wont be running more then 15 psi on the setup in my sig.

I have spoken to several people whos opinions I highly value as a first step to deciding.


Braineack said, that he uses the 6 puck sprung and its a bit of getting used to but totally worth it. He had to relearn how to drive, and sometimes it even catches him off guard. He says its funny watching his dad drive.

Savington said, get the 6 puck sprung because if I need the capacity its the one to have. Then he flat out called me a ***** when I said it might be hard to drive in stop and go traffic. Then asked if my mom plans to drive the car. He says in stop and go its not that bad but can be troublesome.

Cjernigan says, if you have to get the HD get the 6 puck badass one. Says puck style is easy to drive and then called me a ***** for not going for one. He believes most people bitch about the puck clutches but have never actually drove one and dont speak from experience. He says its the pressure plate that causes the most trouble with the puck clutches.

--------

Basically I would like some accounts from those who have a sprung 6 puck.


How do you like it? Big change from a regular organic disc? Problems in stop and go? Would you go back to a regular?


Thanks guys.
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Old 08-17-2008, 09:20 PM   #2
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talk to paul about his setup. i forget the specs but i know he is happy with it. oh, and it has held 300hp.
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Old 08-17-2008, 09:54 PM   #3
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It's honestly not that bad. but it does get taking used to. if i didnt have a ACT clutch that engages so low it wouldn't even be a deal in the least. *****
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Old 08-17-2008, 09:55 PM   #4
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The HDSS is rated to 233ftlbs. Even though ACT is rumored/proven to underrate their products, that's too close to the limits at what you'll put down at 15psi for my comfort. Others may disagree.

You should decide whether pedal effort or engagement characteristics are more important.
HDG6 and XTSS both hold same amount of torque... right at 300ftlbs.
I'll be looking at one of those two for my 300whp NB build. I'm gonna have to drive both of them before I decide.
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Old 08-18-2008, 12:13 AM   #5
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You are right Sam. The matter of 100 bucks also comes into play, and I just dont know if its really worth it if its not that much trouble to have the puck. I also dont mind having a heavy clutch, but id rather have a lighter one. I have sat in a car with an XT and it was quite a bit more effort compared to stock.

I'm curious of other benefits of the puck disc with the weaker pressure plate vs the street disc with the stronger.
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Old 08-18-2008, 12:26 AM   #6
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No DIRECT experience with a puck clutch, but take this for what it's worth.

Friend of mine had a motor swapped integra. He ran a step up from stock clutch and it started slipping. Well he was pissed his new clutch slipped so he ordered and installed the puck clutch. Well it didn't slip. Problem was it was an on/off switch. Car lost a lot of the driveability and smoothness it had before. Maybe that doesn't matter to you, and over time you'll adapt and somewhat overcome this, but in all seriousness it sucked. You have to be good at rev matching when shifting or you would shake the car and put a hard load on the drivetrain. Plus shifting it fast when driving hard is PURE HELL on everything behind that poor clutch. His stock transmission lasted for 4 weeks. Then one day shifted into 2nd and the transmission exploded.

The clutch in the drivetrain is like a fuse in an electrical system. Bigger is not always better. Now I'll admit I HATE a slipping clutch. But then again I'd rather it slip for half a second when I grab second gear in the 1/8 mile driving 10/10ths then it grab so damn hard that torque loading breaks **** that's behind the clutch. You can be more gentle with a strong PP and stock disk vs a puck setup.
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Old 08-18-2008, 02:17 AM   #7
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Look at it this way. ACT lets you achieve 300 ft-lbish torque in 2 different ways.

1. High clamp force, lower friction with the SS(organic street disc) in the ZM2-XTSS is rated at 307 ft-lbs.

2. Low clamp force, higher friction with the G6(sprung 6 puck) in the ZM2-HDG6 is rated at 298 ft-lbs for about $130 less than the XTSS.

I have a Spec Stage 2+ clutch I'll be replacing very soon. For a non street driven car I will have gotten barely 3 seasons of track driving on it at about 6-7 events/year which is probably around 25 hours total track time. The 2+ clutch is a Spec standard pressure plate with a high friction Carbon Fiber/Kevlar disc. That would make this clutch a low clamp force, higher friction configuration. I love the clutch. Driveability and grip has been great. I'm just disappointed in it's life span, which has been all track time.

When it was time to decide on a replacement, I was in the dilema of high clamp force, lower friction or low clamp force, higher friction. I had just seen what a low clamp force, higher friction clutch life span was. Additionally the low clamp force, higher friction types of clutch seem universally more cost effective (cheaper).

I have no personal experience with puck clutches. Folks I know of in the SC'd Miata community with 6 puck discs always comment that they would not take that path if they had it to do again. Even ACT advised me to stay away from the 6 puck G6. Their input was too much sacrifice in driveability and chatter in the drive train.

Being a firm believer in "you get what you pay for", I went with the ACT ZM2-XTSS for its high clamp force, lower friction configuration and hopefully longer life span. It should be going in this month.

Check out TurboImport.com for an ACT clutch. I got mine for $225 below retail plus free shipping this spring. They didn't stock it and wouldn't drop ship it, so it took a while to come in and get shipped from their warehouse.
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Old 08-18-2008, 02:42 AM   #8
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I was a bit worried when i got into savington's car the first time and drove his puck clutch. After a few engagements i had already began to understand how to drive one but still needed some practice. The peddle feel is very close to stock in my opinion. I went with the hd pp with the 6 puck sprung disc as well. It took all of one week to get used to, stop and go traffic is no big deal. Plus now i have an excuse for my gf not to drive me car The only downside i can see is the clutch chattering in reverse, people think i dont know how to drive if i let it chatter and if i rev it a bit more people think i dont know how to drive, but who gives a **** what other people think right?

Dont be a ***** get the 6 puck and be done with it
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Old 08-18-2008, 03:12 AM   #9
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Gotta be nice to your tranny if you do the 6-puck, though. Both tsb and I have blown 5-speeds.
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Old 08-18-2008, 09:03 AM   #10
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Standard ACT HD is proven to stand up to ~300whp. The 6 puck will grab faster but comes with additional risk of driveline damage. Get whichever one you think fits your driving style better.
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Old 08-18-2008, 09:44 AM   #11
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I wish there was something between the 2.

I'm keeping the stock flywheel, and love the engagement of my Spec Kevlar disc. I wonder how important gearing plays a role in smooth engagement. I'll be running the 5-spd and 3.6gear. No idea on which Torsen yet (if it matters). I have yet to drive a puck clutch on any car... so I need to... and even though I love Ben... I'm leaning heavily towards the XTSS.
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Old 08-18-2008, 10:04 AM   #12
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Not sure if a 5 spd + 3.6 + wee T25 is the best combo or not... Hmm, interesting experiment at least.

You're a big dude. The extra pressure won't bother you. Get the standard XT.

<edit> wait, you're going to be running a 1.6 flywheel?
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Old 08-18-2008, 10:11 AM   #13
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I think I have decided to go ACT HDSS. Won't ever see more than 10 PSI and I want the driveability.

Who has the best prices on them?

Last edited by Stein; 08-18-2008 at 10:47 AM.
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Old 08-18-2008, 10:14 AM   #14
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typically carolina clutch does.

search honda-tech for their 5% off coupon for prostreetonline.com i think it's (ht-05), and compare the prices.
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Old 08-18-2008, 10:31 AM   #15
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I run the ZM2-XTSS and haven't had any trouble with it. I think it acts pretty much like the stock clutch, besides it being harder to push, and that goes away quickly. Pretty satisfied with it.
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Old 08-18-2008, 10:33 AM   #16
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FWIW, I had a Spec stage 3 puck clutch in the Mazdaspeed Protege. It held the power great (stockie wouldn't hold almost 250 ft-lbs), and engagement/drivability wasn't too bad. I wouldn't want to drive it in low-grip conditions though (like slowly pulling out in snow), as it was hard to feather.

My only grip was it would sometimes squeek when engaging. Not sure what that was all about.
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Old 08-18-2008, 10:50 AM   #17
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prostreeonline is running a sale @ 10% off, but Carolina Clutch is still another 10% lower and has free shipping. I was suprised that the HDSS was higher priced than both the 4 puck and 6 puck.
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Old 08-18-2008, 11:01 AM   #18
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It's funny, becuase you can buy the disc itself for like $80. It's actually very possible to buy the PP and disc separately and save. It also makes sense as the street disc has a lot more friction material than a pucked.
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Old 08-18-2008, 11:24 AM   #19
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I like my XT PP and stock disc...rated to like 276 ft-lb...

Easy to drive...grabs nicely. I went and picked it up from carolina clutch since they are local to my parents house back home...small shop, all clutch related stuff. Pretty cool guys.
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Old 08-18-2008, 11:35 AM   #20
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If I were to do it again, I'd probably go for a XTMM or XTSS, just because it's more of a street car than anything. I don't have issues with a heavy pedal and I do miss feathering the clutch in stop-n-go traffic.

This comes from someone who's driven miatas with the following:

1.6 and 1.8 ACT HD Street
ACT XT Street
ACT XT with 6-puck
Centerforce Dual Friction
Exedy Stage I
F1 stage III (OEM PP and 6-puck)

Gotta say my favorite was actually the Centerforce...felt exactly like stock (actually lighter) yet held my 200tq. Only issue I had was improper torquing of the PP which lead to hot spots, darned carbon composite.

But like I said, I don't even notice I have the 6-puck anymore. Only sometimes when I drive a stock clutch too long and go back to the miata.... you really do hook up like crazy with a pucked disc, it's very fun.
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