I also made my own ABS sensor brackets for the rear to fit on my NA hubs that don't have provision for a sensor
For the front I used NB ABS hubs and simply plugged then drilled and tapped a new mounting bolt hole and spaced the sensor out to line up with the tone ring. https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...6ad64e844a.jpg https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...432f71600e.jpg https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...0d6b82f150.jpg |
Damn, I'm like 0/137 this week. Nobody should listen to me again until I'm right.
Very clean install @timwrx Have a cat for the nice solution for mounting the rear sensor. |
Indeed, very nicely done.
--Ian |
Originally Posted by timwrx
(Post 1599740)
You also need to use long thread brake flare nuts in the module, the short ones run out of thread before the pipe seats, found this out the hard way.
Do you know how short the fittings were that didnt work? The "short" and "long" fitting lengths differ from manufacturers so it's hard to tell what those actually mean. Also, I assume inverted flare in the tee fittings/blocks? Lastly, when you say "hubs" you mean the uprights right? |
Originally Posted by icantlearn
(Post 1599756)
First off, thanks for sharing, amazing work.
Do you know how short the fittings were that didnt work? The "short" and "long" fitting lengths differ from manufacturers so it's hard to tell what those actually mean. Also, I assume inverted flare in the tee fittings/blocks? Lastly, when you say "hubs" you mean the uprights right? I bought all the fittings from Brakeconnect.com and I found that the BQ4511 was too short but the BQ4511LT fit great not sure what the exact lengths were, all the tee fittings and joiners are inverted flare M10x1, the tee blocks I bought from ebay. |
Has anyone made a list of the quantity of fittings needed from Brakequip?
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Originally Posted by timwrx
(Post 1599741)
For the front I used NB ABS hubs and simply plugged then drilled and tapped a new mounting bolt hole and spaced the sensor out to line up with the tone ring.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...0d6b82f150.jpg |
Originally Posted by yuba
(Post 1599980)
Has anyone made a list of the quantity of fittings needed from Brakequip?
Other than that you need M10 inverted flare tube nuts (about 12) and M10 (2) and M12 (4) bubble flare tube nuts and a few M10 unions (3) |
Originally Posted by fmcokc
(Post 1599991)
Part numbers are brakequip bq44 for the pressure sensor adapters and bq91A tee fitting. 2 of each
Other than that you need M10 inverted flare tube nuts (about 12) and M10 (2) and M12 (4) bubble flare tube nuts and a few M10 unions (3) 2x Brakequip BQ44 2x Brakequip BQ91A Then I noticed the post above talking about the length of the M10 nuts so it sounds like I'd want to order: 12x Brakequip BQ4511LT 3/16 M10x1.0 long bubble flare tube nuts 4x Brakequip BQ9180 3/16 M12x1.0 bubble flare tube nuts 3x Doorman 785-439D Bubble Flare 3/16 M10x1.0 unions I ordered my 3DM harness yesterday so I'm trying to gather everything without making a ton of orders. |
The OEM rear sensor mounting brackets are steel and so heavy thus not worth modifying. I just cut new brackets out of aluminum. So much lighter. A fifth of the weight. I should anodize them next
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...0ba37b56ac.jpg https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...883cf61172.jpg https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...43a93af7ce.jpg https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...ded6ec591c.jpg https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...4fa3ee6fc9.jpg https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...7be602d9e7.jpg |
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You wanna make another set for me? heh.
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Originally Posted by icantlearn
(Post 1600022)
You wanna make another set for me? heh.
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Originally Posted by fmcokc
(Post 1599990)
How big of a gap are you running between the tone ring and the sensor?
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Originally Posted by yuba
(Post 1599993)
I saw the:
2x Brakequip BQ44 2x Brakequip BQ91A Then I noticed the post above talking about the length of the M10 nuts so it sounds like I'd want to order: 12x Brakequip BQ4511LT 3/16 M10x1.0 long bubble flare tube nuts 4x Brakequip BQ9180 3/16 M12x1.0 bubble flare tube nuts 3x Doorman 785-439D Bubble Flare 3/16 M10x1.0 unions I ordered my 3DM harness yesterday so I'm trying to gather everything without making a ton of orders. You also don't need bubble flare unions, inverted flare unions are probably easier to use and matches the rest of the Mazda fittings. Stock setup also only has one rear brake line which feeds both rear brakes so you need to add an additional line from the ABS unit to the rear of the car, I used the factory line to feed the LH caliper and ran a new line to the RH side. |
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Originally Posted by icantlearn
(Post 1600022)
You wanna make another set for me? heh.
Originally Posted by yuba
(Post 1600024)
Same
If that doesn't put you off you DM me I guess. |
Originally Posted by timwrx
(Post 1600044)
You also don't need bubble flare unions, inverted flare unions are probably easier to use and matches the rest of the Mazda fittings.
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Originally Posted by timwrx
(Post 1600043)
About 2mm, just set it a close as I could without touching
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Originally Posted by timwrx
(Post 1600043)
About 2mm, just set it a close as I could without touching
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Originally Posted by fmcokc
(Post 1600099)
needs to be between .035”-.060”. These active sensors are different than the passive sensors. They need to be much closer or the can fault.
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Originally Posted by j_man
(Post 1600068)
On the easier to use part - any input on why that? I've used both inverted flare and bubble flare unions over the years but I haven't experience one being any different to use than the other. I might've missed something.
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Originally Posted by icantlearn
(Post 1600059)
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Just a bit more info for anyone doing this swap, I bought this cable to plug into the OBD port of the BMW unit and it works great, cost me about $16 when I bought it last year, came with the required software.
BMW OBD Diagnostic Tool Allows you to properly bleed the system, test the brake application of each wheel, check wheel speed sensor outputs etc. If you have an AIM dash you can also connect the CAN output from the unit to the dash and receive wheel speeds, fault indication plus more I forget. I'm also running a Haltech elite 1500 ECU and I've got the individual digital wheel speed outputs from the BMW unit feeding into that, this allows me to use the inputs for vehicle speed, traction control, launch control and also the ability to log individual wheel speeds. |
Originally Posted by timwrx
(Post 1600141)
If you have an AIM dash you can also connect the CAN output from the unit to the dash and receive wheel speeds, fault indication plus more I forget.
Originally Posted by timwrx
(Post 1600141)
I'm also running a Haltech elite 1500 ECU and I've got the individual digital wheel speed outputs from the BMW unit feeding into that, this allows me to use the inputs for vehicle speed, traction control, launch control and also the ability to log individual wheel speeds.
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Originally Posted by thebeerbaron
(Post 1600142)
I thought that the CAN broadcast only happened if some percentage of the original BMW CAN bus was there, like the dash and the ABS module ... can you share information about how this works?
I think I may be running out of inputs on my Haltech, but did you basically hook up the four speed wires directly to IOs on the Haltech? And everything "just works" ? Screenshot of AIM setup below https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...f239b47f4b.jpg For the Haltech inputs, yes I just hooked each digital output on the MK60 to a digital input on the Haltech. Just have to calibrate the speed in the Haltech ESP software. |
Originally Posted by thebeerbaron
(Post 1600142)
I thought that the CAN broadcast only happened if some percentage of the original BMW CAN bus was there, like the dash and the ABS module ... can you share information about how this works?
With the motorsports tune, the unit outputs all the info over CAN and all the BMW stuff is gone. You also have the option for the can bus rate - either 500k or 1m For the OBD port - you get a small program by Continental (MiniDiag.exe) which you use to connect to the unit to read error codes (to check what's going on if your MIL light comes on), set the unit in bleeding mode when you have to bleed the brakes and so on. |
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Originally Posted by timwrx
(Post 1600141)
Just a bit more info for anyone doing this swap, I bought this cable to plug into the OBD port of the BMW unit and it works great, cost me about $16 when I bought it last year, came with the required software.
BMW OBD Diagnostic Tool Allows you to properly bleed the system, test the brake application of each wheel, check wheel speed sensor outputs etc. |
After sitting down and looking at it yesterday, it seems like one way to clean it up a bit would be to use M12 bubble flare dual banjos into the ABS unit with one of the fittings being a M10 bubble that you thread the pressure sensor right into and the other fitting being a m10 inverted for a MC feed line.
edit: accidentally a word |
Originally Posted by timwrx
(Post 1600140)
You may need a straight union for the rear of the car when you separate the left and right circuits at the diff
Originally Posted by yuba
(Post 1600214)
After sitting down and looking at it yesterday, it seems like one way to clean it up a bit would be to use M12 bubble flare dual banjos into the ABS unit with one of the fittings being a M10 bubble that you thread the pressure sensor right into and the other fitting being a m10 inverted for a MC feed line.
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Here is the m12x1 banjo bolt for anyone looking.
The issue now is finding an m12 fitting with flared m10x1 threads. The hunt continues... |
You'd want a dual outlet banjo bolt, then you'd stack the banjo fittings with crush washers between them. An example of this in use would be the front of motorcycles with dual brakes, either on the master itself or on one of the calipers.
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Oops. Linked the wrong one. Post amended.
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Originally Posted by yuba
(Post 1600214)
After sitting down and looking at it yesterday, it seems like one way to clean it up a bit would be to use M12 bubble flare dual banjos into the ABS unit with one of the fittings being a M10 bubble that you thread the pressure sensor right into and the other fitting being a m10 inverted for a MC feed line
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Found the rest. They don't make flared banjo fittings so you will need an adapter to make this work.
The adapters. First one is inverted flare. Second is bubble if you want to go that route. But I think you need inverted flare for these. -3an to m10x1 inverted flare Bubble. -3an to m10x1 bubble flare |
Originally Posted by icantlearn
(Post 1600235)
Found the rest. They don't make flared banjo fittings so you will need an adapter to make this work.
m12 banjo to -3an fitting The adapters. First one is inverted flare. Second is bubble if you want to go that route. But I think you need inverted flare for these. -3an to m10x1 inverted flare Bubble. -3an to m10x1 bubble flare |
Hey folks, great thread! Very informative. I'm in the middle of this conversion. I've completed the plumbing/mechanical, and starting electrical.
I've have one question I can't find an answer to on any forum I search. Pin 39 of the MK60 is an input labeled "ACS passive button" or "DSC passive switch" depending on which document you read. My assumption is that Pin 39 can be left unconnected. Can someone confirm what to do with that pin? Thanks! |
Originally Posted by 12go
(Post 1600317)
Hey folks, great thread! Very informative. I'm in the middle of this conversion. I've completed the plumbing/mechanical, and starting electrical.
I've have one question I can't find an answer to on any forum I search. Pin 39 of the MK60 is an input labeled "ACS passive button" or "DSC passive switch" depending on which document you read. My assumption is that Pin 39 can be left unconnected. Can someone confirm what to do with that pin? Thanks! |
Thanks!!
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I wish I had a flow chart of the MK60 ABS algorithm. :)
I hate relay's and switches.....I'm considering not installing the Brake Light Switch and the required relay to get the "no brake = gnd" circuitry. (Although mechanically, I could make a custom bracket that activates a switch when the pedal is not pressed, and floats the input when the pedal is pressed, so no relay needed.) I guess leaving the BLS input pin floating, the MK60 sees "brake light on", but 0 pressure from the sensors, and ignores the BLS? Put anther way, maybe the MK60 ignores the BLS until it faults one of the pressure sensors? |
Originally Posted by yuba
(Post 1600214)
After sitting down and looking at it yesterday, it seems like one way to clean it up a bit would be to use M12 bubble flare dual banjos into the ABS unit with one of the fittings being a M10 bubble that you thread the pressure sensor right into and the other fitting being a m10 inverted for a MC feed line.
edit: accidentally a word Looking in pegasusracing for fittings now! |
This may be the money shot for my setup. Thanks for the idea, headed to the shop to measure a few things!
https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/pr...sp?RecID=28015 https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...4437fc188b.jpg |
Originally Posted by 12go
(Post 1600346)
I hate all the AN3 junctions I have (BMW sensor + prop valve or AiM sensor, front and rear). Looking in pegasusracing for fittings now!
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I suspect a number of us are tied to the MK60 due to NASA lol rules
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Originally Posted by yuba
(Post 1599993)
Then I noticed the post above talking about the length of the M10 nuts so it sounds like I'd want to order:
12x Brakequip BQ4511LT 3/16 M10x1.0 long bubble flare tube nuts The flare nuts have different nose shapes because the back side of the DIN/ISO and inverted flare is different (first being flat, second being angled) If using Brakequip nuts for M10x1mm DIN ports and flares the proper part number is BQ72 - it is properly shaped to support DIN flare and should be the correct length too. |
I just looked up a link for you from that site:
https://brakequipproducts.com/shop/b...x-1mm-316-din/ |
Originally Posted by 12go
(Post 1600349)
This may be the money shot for my setup. Thanks for the idea, headed to the shop to measure a few things!
https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/pr...sp?RecID=28015 |
Originally Posted by j_man
(Post 1600362)
Seems you're trying to use inverted flare nuts in the ports of the MK60 (the seats of which are for bubble DIN/ISO flares).
The flare nuts have different nose shapes because the back side of the DIN/ISO and inverted flare is different (first being flat, second being angled) If using Brakequip nuts for M10x1mm DIN ports and flares the proper part number is BQ72 - it is properly shaped to support DIN flare and should be the correct length too. https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...03d071202a.jpg |
1 Attachment(s)
Here's a plan I put together for myself to help make the wiring loom and also to help me troubleshoot in the future, wire colors I made up myself with the wiring I had. I made the complete harness on the bench and then installed in the car.
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2 Attachment(s)
Originally Posted by j_man
(Post 1600368)
If the outlet port of your MCs is on top (the way most duals are) and you bolt this banjo there, how are you going to take the air out of the side with the sensor since it is a dead end and no fluid flowing through?!
Attachment 228064 Attachment 228065 |
Yea, I'm a big fan of mounting those (or any) sensor such that air rises to the line. My pump is mounted at an angle, and I think it might all work out. That said, my plumbing is done and leak free (whew) so this would be a change I'd do down the road.
Got a good start on my harness/cable today. Timwrx, thanks for the pdf, I'll be double checking mine against that. https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...f790379550.jpg I'm going to mount a lever switch next to the brake pedal for the BLS input. I have my brake lights activated via an AiM pressure sensor, but a normally closed lever switch should would great for this...I think. |
Originally Posted by timwrx
(Post 1600386)
The BMW unit uses an ISO bubble flare not a DIN flare, the inverted flare nuts work for both bubble and inverted flares.
The DIN/ISO bubble flare has a flat back thus the different shaped nut. BMW use DIN/ISO bubble flare and this is what the BMW flares and their nuts look OEM: https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...6643bcf6d8.png I guess you could get away by using SAE bubble flares, but you'll be off the OEM spec |
Originally Posted by j_man
(Post 1600416)
Your picture has the name wrong! What it calls ISO bubble flare is a SAE bubble flare (also called British bubble or Girling bubble). The SAE bubble flare has the same back as the SAE double inverted flare and they share the similar nuts.
The DIN/ISO bubble flare has a flat back thus the different shaped nut. BMW use DIN/ISO bubble flare and this is what the BMW flares and their nuts look OEM: I guess you could get away by using SAE bubble flares, but you'll be off the OEM spec |
Do the inputs of the BMW E46 wheel speed sensors have polarity?
That is, the ABS controller pin-out shows "Signal" and "V+" for each of the 4 wheels speed sensors, does that matter? |
Originally Posted by 12go
(Post 1600435)
Do the inputs of the BMW E46 wheel speed sensors have polarity?
That is, the ABS controller pin-out shows "Signal" and "V+" for each of the 4 wheels speed sensors, does that matter? Some pin-out docs by Continental/Teves Motorsports label them Signal and GND and in that case it is the opposite: Pin 1 goes to Gnd, Pin 2 goes to signal |
Thanks!
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Originally Posted by fmcokc
(Post 1600506)
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Incredible work here guys!
Does anyone have any tips on depinning the large controller plug at all? |
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