i have the yaw sensor hooked up and i believe the mk60 sees it based on checking it in the software. i will have to check for pressure errors. on a side note, do you think it's possible to get the yaw data from the mk60 via canbus? i want to do some active aero and that would keep me from having to have a redundant sensor.

My yaw sensor works and I do not have the pressure imbalance error any longer after setting the F/R bias within the pressure window mentioned earlier in the thread as observed in INPA. The system has been flawless for me so far.

I've not see the yaw data mentioned, but I'll ask when the opportunity presents it's self.

Yuba,

Do you think having the pressure balance where the unit expects it helps, or is that a just in case precaution?

I'm not entirely sure, the other people I talked to went this route so I followed since it is known to work.

I stopped getting notifications and it looks like I missed some good stuff.
FYI, actual "ice mode" is simply ABS off.

Are you folks on the verge of figuring out how to program the MK60 at will? :)

I saw above mentioned using the wheel speeds over the CAN bus for traction control instead of the hardware outputs at the connector. Keep in mind the outputs at the connector are 10 times faster than the CAN bus wheel speed rate, Thus the hardware output is the preferred method for traction control.

Do you know what the data rate is exactly? I ask because I'm pretty sure BMW used the wheel speeds via can for TC

When you say 10 times faster, are you saying that the sample rate eventually can’t keep up at a certain speed, or the data transmission would lag and the speed output wouldnt represent the current speed? Do you know what speed it would be good to in the first case? Sorry if I’m not wording this right, I’m not good with serial stuff. I only need traction control up to about 70-80mph in most cases so I can just simply shut it off after that.

Less than a millisecond response time on the output at the connector. So it is probably even more than 10 times faster. IIRC those channels on the CAN bus are at 100Hz on the Mk60E5 and probably (not 100% sure) 50Hz on the Mk60

yowzers. i guess it'll work up to 10mph lol

The firmware (i.e. what you have flashed in) of some of these Teves ABS units does the traction control for acceleration itself. What the ABS unit does over the CAN bus is to tell the ECU how much torque it wants from the engine at every moment it is running TC.
The wheel speeds outputs over the CAN bus are mostly for logging/display. That's how it is in the race cars. It is probably the same with all BMW TC.

I was finally able to get the canbus to start sending out. Using all zeros in the dummy data only kept it running for about 20ms. I found that discord page, found the dummy data in that picture posted. It all seems to be working. I also did a test and changed some values in the vin on 610h and it still worked fine so exact vin is not neccessary. The dummy data on 316h, 329h, 613h, and 615h is all that mattered with some vinlike number on 610h. I did the dummy data at 10ms/100hz and the 610h at 1000ms/1hz. Not sure how important it was but it worked.

That's great, I guess you can confirm the data update frequency is still too low to do anything like TC right?

The data comes in on the bus at 7ms which is the fastest I've seen any data come through a canbus in my Nissan/BMW experience. That isn't to say that the wheel speeds are being output at that speed, but I can't see any reason it wouldn't be. I don't know what would be required from a system to have a quality TC, but I do know 350z/370z only source of wheel speed, the address is broadcasted at 20ms. I wouldn't necessarily call Nissan traction control anything to brag about though for any performance orientated help.

OEM TC is generally designed to be safe, not to maximize performance, so I don't know that the 20ms is the limiting factor here.

At 7200 RPM a 4-stroke 4-cylinder will see an ignition event every 4ms. To be as good as possible, you'd probably want to see 2 or 3 wheel speeds inside that interval, so getting them at 10ms is probably not quite as fast as you'd like. How much that actually matters though, I don't know.

--Ian

Dumb question.......does the unit require two 30 amp feeds for a total of 60amps or is there just two wires ran to a single fuse?

IIRC from my look at the OE wiring diagrams, it actually goes to two 30A fuses. I’m not sure if it’d ever draw 60A, that’s a hell of a lot, but my install was with two wires and two 30A fuses.

Do you still have the usual fault codes if you do this? Specifically the one related to steering angle sensor/LWS? If not, I would be concerned about potentially getting unintended stability control/ESC activations.

Not sure if anyone else would benefit from this, but I figured I would share my pump mounting solution.

I bought these: https://www.mcmaster.com/4403K84


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...a3d0958a5.jpeg

Then I made some jigs:


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...177c0865a.jpeg

then I made some cuts and drilled some holes:


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...0d79f8db3.jpeg

The spacers let the pump clear the shock tower and no welding required. The plate could use some refinement as I spun it up quickly, but the above is functional/i can upload the STL if someone wishes to do similar.

I thought it would be nice to tuck mine up under the dash out of the way...... except you have to run all the lines under the dash so it's a royal pain in the ass
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...7c1dddb08d.jpg

Does anyone have a link to this software? The link in the box is dead and google returns stuff I'm pretty sure have me a virus just looking at them

This video walks you through it, link to the files are in the description

i ran mine on the track for the first time this weekend and i agree with everything you said. It does get a little squirrely in the rear in straight line braking, especially if i jump a curb with the ABS activated, but it doesn't really go anywhere. and then without lifting i went directly into trailbraking and it was perfectly fine. I contributed it to running a bit more antisquat than what most people probably run, but hard to say. overall, i love it and i improved my personal best by 4 seconds, mostly because of trusting the car to stop.

Keisler drop spindles
 

Circling back here. Took a bit of foot work to find the right sensor that I could adapt into Mr2s front hubs. I spoke with Doug and confirmed my suspicions. I ordered about a dozen different sensors and finally the one that worked best was a Subaru Forester abs sensor


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...560fe4d96.jpeg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...92dc3dce1.jpeg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...4c83aef8e.jpeg

Quick question, has anyone gotten the 4 digital speed outputs to show up in their standalone? I'm messing with megasquirt if that matters. I've not been able to correlate the 4 outputs on any wiring diagrams other than the pdf we're using here. Do they need a 5v pull up?

I've not tried it yet but getting all 4 in my setup is going to mean installing a microsquirt I/O expander so I want to be sure before I spend the

Edit: To add, also does anyone have a suggested hand held OBD2 module to trigger bleeding? still fighting this dongle setup and I can already see where bleeding would be much easier with a handheld.

I got the 4 digital speed outputs to show up on an arduino, so it should work on megasquirt. You will need a 5v pull up.

I also had issues with the dongle/INPA, the version that came with my dongle did not work and I had my OBD plug wired slightly wrong. I can send you the INPA install files I used if you are interested.

.

.

i posted how to to get the speed outputs working in megasquirt. i also used the microsquirt io expander and it works decent. I do suspect there is some lag due to can bus, but it works "good enough" for traction control. here's the post:
https://www.miataturbo.net/suspensio...4/#post1610543

Thanks for the input guys, TC is next on my list to get working.

Figured out the key to the inpa dongle is it has to be set to com 1 or no dice. Also picked up a foxfire hand held which is handy.

First event under my belt........and who would have thunk it, but the hand of god is German. Holy fuck balls is this good, pretty much transformed braking for me. Obviously you can just jump on the binders and get to threshold braking much quicker and consistently, that part I expected. What I didn't expect was how well trail braking worked with this system, the mk60 will allow the car to rotate to a certain vector and then hold it there. You could feel the pedal push back once you got to the calibration angle. Just wild to experience. It was key to getting this pig around the long sweepers at NCM. Also noticed where I would have pad knock back after a few corners without braking that once the abs kicked in the pedal would rise back to it's normal height which is cool.

I'm definitely going to try the CS calibration and see how I like it, but overall this has been one of the most satisfying changes to the car next to the LS itself.

Here's some video, first weekend at NCM and my AR1s were heat cycled out, so lap times aren't what they should be but you get the idea of what the abs is doing.

Yeah, it was night and day over stock Miata but it wasn't until I sold my Miata and bought a BRZ that I realized how good it was.

Yeah, the mk60 system is awesome.

A word of warning though, it IS possible to provoke it into ice mode. I highly recommend getting a couple of brake pressure sensors, logging pressure both before and after the ABS unit, and then using that train yourself how to get pressure up to the ABS threshold quickly without going too far over it.

--Ian

Thanks for the advice, I was being as aggressive as I felt I could be without upsetting the car. I'll be sure to expirment in safe corners when I have the chance, none of those at NCM 😬

by ice mode, you mean where the brakes lock up, or the brakes just say fuck you and barely do anything? If it's the latter, i agree, i've had it happen a few times in autocross. However, i have never had it just lock up the tires.

The latter. You push on the pedal and it seems like nothing is happening because the ABS is taking most of the pressure away from the front wheels.

--Ian

ok glad i'm not the only one. hasn't happened on the track yet fortunately, but i have definitely blown a corner or three in autocross in extreme circumstances. i was wondering about pressure bias being part of the issue since i haven't checked that at all. also wonder if getting it "tuned" would help with that.

has anyone tinkered with later model stuff? specifically the mk60e5?

Hi guys, So I have taken the plunge and have a mk60 and associated Parts on the way. Its a 818.3 unit so wont send out CAN messages without receiving some CAN messages. I really need the wheel speed for the traction control.

Just a background the electronics on the car are Syvecs (life racing) ECU, PDU, CAN keypad, Plex Dash and a HTG transmission controller for the 7 speed DCT gearbox. I have Syvecs available to do any custom coding but I really could do with knowing exactly what's required to get the MK60 talking. Syvecs Have experience with the E46 M3 and I actually have 1 of their plug and play kits on my own turbo E46 M3 but the difference is that the MX5 wont have the e46 dash or steering angle sensor that their kit would usually see.

So what i have found so far from this thread is:
Mk60 sends a RTR. Message looking for a handshake on 0x610 RCP sends out last 7 digits of the vin that is already stored in the mk60 on 0x610 Handshake complete Then the mk60 needs to see the generic steering angle and ECU data on channels 0x316,0x329, 0x613 and 0x615 After this is complete the abs is happy and will stream out the wheelspeeds (and some units the brake pressure) to the canbus network on channels 0x1F0 and 0x1F8

I Sent this to Syvecs and they said that the e46 m3 does not have a 0x610 can message on the car bus and provided the attached image of a capture of the OEM bus.

If anyone could help it would be much appreciated.


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...81a572cd48.png

I picked up one of the flashable units for a future project while they are still cheap / unknown. It is my understanding that you also need to have the gateway module to communicate with the e90 m3 abs unit. 860.3 and 870.3 are the units.

i can't answer that at the moment, but i will be diving into it in the next few weeks with MaxxECU when i make the change from Megasquirt, so maybe we can help eachother. I'm currently using the 0-5v outputs from the MK60 for wheel speeds for traction control and it works fine, but CAN bus just seems more logical. I'll also be using a BMW DCT, but MaxxECU controls it so i won't be using the HTG

Interesting. Maybe i'll do the same. I'll have to look into the gateway module. Never heard of those.

Yeah, I am not sure how it all works yet but I wanted to get one before the masses descend. Downside is they aren't allowed to be swapped into a car for NASA 4/5 per the ABS rules, so that puts it on the backburner for me.
I think that Doug has made harnesses for the MK60E5 and I know Andrew Liddell can flash them as he sent me a chassis template worksheet.

Attachment 228054

Ah awesome. Didn't even realise there was 0-5v outputs for wheel speed. Dont think they are on my diagram. Is that 4 channel? Suppose its an option but much rather have it over CAN. Just makes more sense.... that and the harness is almost complete and i don't want to be adding stuff now haha

yes, it's 4 channel

Cool I didn't see those on my diagram. Do you have one to share with them on?

Ah great. I must have missed that! I was using the motorsport diagram I found earlier in the thread. I think I may just run those wires in case I am unable to get the CAN working.

it's only 4 wires, and you can run a single 4 wire cable temporarily, which is what i did. I needed a pullup resistor for megasquirt

I've seen quite a few of that era BMW can networks and none of them have the 0x610 message. The closest one is 0x613 which is the cluster. I've also done a 335 swap into an E46 and the ABS definitely did NOT require the stock E46 ECU to send out the wheelspeeds or to request torque intervention during wheelspin.

i've been in the process of switching over from Megasquirt to MaxxECU, so i've been looking more into the MK60 CAN bus communication for wheel speeds. I've been hearing you don't need to do anything other than read the channels. This was first-hand from people who have done it. I will be trying it in the next couple weeks, so i'll report back what i find.

On a side note, i realized that i never calibrated my pressure and yaw sensors, so i decided to give it a try. I did this in INPA, and wow, what a difference. The brakes felt a lot more aggressive, and i had no instances of "ice mode" in situations where i would have had it. Highly recommend it.

Interesting observation on the calibration procedures. I did them with the foxwell hand held just because it was an option. I haven't seen any indication of ice mode in my limited use so maybe that is the difference between the folks who have had issues.

Good luck on the can bus, I have mine wired into the network but haven't messed with getting it communicating. My interim solution is a micro squirt as a can bus remote I/O expander

I am currently doing the same thing as you with MS3 and the microsquirt. If you haven't done it recently, update your firmware on megasquirt. They made some changes to the traction control settings and it takes averages of both driven and undriven wheels now. seems to work better.

I did see that added, and I've had some very specific issues with TC response differences turning left to right. Fingers crossed this makes it consistent left to right. I've.got an event with Gridlife at Gingerman in a week, it has several 45-55 mph corners and I have wheel spin issues below 80mph so it should be a good test of the improvements

I had the same issue before i went to the 4 channel wheel speed sensors with the io expander. i went to the new firmware as soon as i switched to 4 channel, so i am unsure if it would have had the issue with 4 sensors and the old firmware. I still constantly have to play with the amount of timing retard and richening i have based on track and tire conditions, but it seems fairly consistent left to right now. My car is very wheelspin happy, so it is very noticeable when it isnt working. Most of my usage of TC is in autocross, so it's generally all under 80, and it seems like the TC is much harder to set up for that stuff. On the track, it feels like some sort of black magic. I can mash the gas at exit and it will only kick out a little, then it reels itself right back in with no drama.

I ran the new firmware on the old 2 wheel speed setup and it was still very much left to right dependent. When tuned correctly for one direction it was exactly as you described. Really takes the edge off. Feels a lot like how the MK60 does it's thing while trail braking into the corner, just an invisible safety net to save you from yourself

For me, and i assume everyone without a spool, it's because my Tru Trac doesn't work well when the inner rear wheel is off the ground, so when the active sensors are on the outside wheels in the corner, it doesn't know that wheel is just spinning.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...23d5c3960c.jpg

anyone know if a resistor is needed at the mk60 end of the can bus, assuming it's the last thing on the bus? Or is there one internally?

Which orientation does the acceleration sensor need to be mounted in? from what I can find it needs to be upside down (mounting tabs at the top) with the plug pointing rearward. Is that correct?

this is correct

https://www.kmpdrivetrain.com/paddle...-tips-can-bus/

It should measure 60ohm between Can H and L.