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Has anyone tried the MK60/2 (= gen 2) yet? I think it was used in the E90 3 series and comes with integrated brake pressure sensors.
I'm currently installing the NB2 ABS into my 1992 NA. It *looks* like the big connector at the ABS Block might physically fit MK60 units, so upgrading to an MK60 at a later stage might be a simple task of replacing the wheel speed sensors and adding the wire for the yaw sensor. (And maybe re-pin some wires at the ABS connector)
Has anyone tried the MK60/2 (= gen 2) yet? I think it was used in the E90 3 series and comes with integrated brake pressure sensors.
I'm currently installing the NB2 ABS into my 1992 NA. It *looks* like the big connector at the ABS Block might physically fit MK60 units, so upgrading to an MK60 at a later stage might be a simple task of replacing the wheel speed sensors and adding the wire for the yaw sensor. (And maybe re-pin some wires at the ABS connector)
I think you might be referring to the mk60e5 system. From what I understand, it has to see a can connection to one of the other modules to operate.
Ah, got it. Megasquirt can send a can protocol if I'm not mistaken. But maybe it's better to stick to the proven solution. Do you think it's necessary to remap the ABS ECU for a dual duty car running wide UHP trackday tires (Nankang AR-1), i.e. not slicks?
Chris pointed me to this thread and I wanted to introduce myself. I am the guy that did the wiring and provided the ABS unit. Please don't hesitate to fire away with questions.
Chris pointed me to this thread and I wanted to introduce myself. I am the guy that did the wiring and provided the ABS unit. Please don't hesitate to fire away with questions.
Hi! Thank you for dropping by I think it will be very valuable. Looking forward to seeing this develop in the NA and NB chassis
Looks like I may be going down this path soon. I might have to hit you up to have a set of front spindles modified.
Sorry if I missed it but did you end up having your module programmed with specific info from the car? Or did you end up with the CSL flash or is it just an untouched unit?
And another question, is there any way to implement a rotary type switch to adjust the level of ABS intervention on the fly?
Looks like I may be going down this path soon. I might have to hit you up to have a set of front spindles modified.
Sorry if I missed it but did you end up having your module programmed with specific info from the car? Or did you end up with the CSL flash or is it just an untouched unit?
And another question, is there any way to implement a rotary type switch to adjust the level of ABS intervention on the fly?
There is not a way to adjust the amount of intervention with this system. That would be Bosch M4/5/6 systems.
We are using the 813.3 and 817.3 units. The 813.3 has the standard M3 program and the 817.3 has the CSL program. I personally think the standard M3 program actually works best for our cars. We are trying some different rear brake setups to see how shifting the bias more rearward affects the abs.
There is not a way to adjust the amount of intervention with this system. That would be Bosch M4/5/6 systems.
We are using the 813.3 and 817.3 units. The 813.3 has the standard M3 program and the 817.3 has the CSL program. I personally think the standard M3 program actually works best for our cars. We are trying some different rear brake setups to see how shifting the bias more rearward affects the abs.
Interesting. I am going to be using a Stoptech four wheel BBK.
And one last question, if you have an on/off switch for the system does the braking function normally when the ABS unit is powered off or are there bias issues?
Interesting. I am going to be using a Stoptech four wheel BBK.
And one last question, if you have an on/off switch for the system does the braking function normally when the ABS unit is powered off or are there bias issues?
We are running an adj prop valve on our cars and setting them as if we had no ABS. When the ABS engages, it takes over the biasing of the brakes. I am going to try deleting the prop valve altogether and see how it works next.
When you turn the ABS off, it works just like normal. We have a switch located right next to the Ign switch on the panel for easy access if there is ever a problem and need to turn it off.
I've been doing this to my own HPDE car and ran into a "gotcha" that I thought I'd share.
The pressure sensors thread into inverted flare ports, NOT bubble flare ports. I machined my own fittings based on the assumption that they were bubble-flare, like other fittings on the BMW. They leak. Don't make the same mistake!
Douglas Wardell / 3DMmotorsport have been very supportive and helpful. I'm using their parts kit of ABS module + wheel sensors + pressure sensors + gyro box, but I've done my own wiring. No affiliation, just a happy customer.
I've been doing this to my own HPDE car and ran into a "gotcha" that I thought I'd share.
The pressure sensors thread into inverted flare ports, NOT bubble flare ports. I machined my own fittings based on the assumption that they were bubble-flare, like other fittings on the BMW. They leak. Don't make the same mistake!
Douglas Wardell / 3DMmotorsport have been very supportive and helpful. I'm using their parts kit of ABS module + wheel sensors + pressure sensors + gyro box, but I've done my own wiring. No affiliation, just a happy customer.
Yep, use the Brakequip bq44 12-10mm adapters to avoid that issue.
The pressure sensors thread into inverted flare ports, NOT bubble flare ports. I machined my own fittings based on the assumption that they were bubble-flare, like other fittings on the BMW. They leak. Don't make the same mistake!
It might just be your custom fittings? A few months ago I found a 23mm Audi TT master cylinder that has the ABS sensors threaded straight into the ports, and I bought a cheap used one with sensors still installed off ebay to play with. The parts diagrams list it as having 4 M12x1 BBL ports but I had never removed a sensor to confirm. I just pulled a sensor out, and the ports are definitely bubble flare. The sensor has a very heavy chamfer on the outer edge so that it looks like it can work with either bubble or inverted flare.
(For anyone wondering, the Audi master definitely won't bolt up to the miata brake booster, but could maybe work with an adapter plate. I don't think the pushrod length would be correct though. I only bought it because I'm doing a booster delete at the same time as the ABS.)
Yep, use the Brakequip bq44 12-10mm adapters to avoid that issue.
I understand now why you chose those fittings, but when I originally read this thread, I didn’t like the idea of adapters combined with the tee. Ironically, I figured it was more likely to result in leaks. I thought that since it’s easy to drill a bubble flare port, I’d just make my own, “the right way”.
Shows what I know.
Your directions and part numbers are correct. Folks should beware if they decide to go in a different direction.
I'm now far enough along in my install that I'm comfortable saying a few things I've done are functional and I feel OK sharing the info. I was going to wait until I had a chance to actually test the car, but I've had a few requests, so here goes.
DIY Wiring Tips
Connectors - Junk Yard approach.
I got my connectors from the junk yard. E46es are surprisingly plentiful in NorCal Pick-N-Pulls. I didn't believe it until I searched. You'll need:
4 x blue wheel speed sensor connectors, body side. I don't think they're limited to the E46, in fact I think some of the ones I grabbed came off a 5 series. Grab more than four so you have one or two to break, or so you can select the best at home. Beware that there are gray connectors of similar size/shape that are either from a different ABS system or from the brake pad wear sensors. If you're thinking the connector in your hand might just be faded blue, it's probably gray. The blue connectors are blue like a Smurf.
1 x 47-pin connector + 2 x 3-pin pressure sensor connectors. I don't recall if the big connector is limited to those E46es that came with the MK60 ABS, I think it was actually used on an earlier ABS system as well. You'll know it when you see it. The MK60 systems have the ABS module really close to the master cylinder and the two pressure sensors are mounted to the master. Take some time at the junk yard to tease apart the wire bundle that goes to the connector and separate out the two pigtails that go to the pressure sensors. There's no need to chop up these lines. If you're going to be really lazy, also go ahead and unbolt the ground wire instead of cutting it. Some time looking and thinking before you cut may save you headaches later. Also note that the ABS system is hidden under a plastic cover that's held on by socket head hex screws or some crazy knockwurst like that. At least I think they were hex, maybe they were Torx? Just bring your entire damn tool box, those BMW over-engineers love using five bolts of differing sizes where one will do.
See that tab at the far left side? Pull that straight out and the connector will self-eject off the pump controller. The indexing tabs in the center slot don't seem to matter - I've used two of these connectors, each with different configuration, they work just fine.
1 x 6 pin connector for yaw/accel sensor. This one is a pain. It's located in the cockpit, on the floor, just in front of the driver's seat, towards the outside edge of the car. Your best bet is to cut away the carpet directly in front of the front seat mounting points. If you're grabbing the electronics yourself, you'll want to grab the box it's attached to, but I didn't do that. Only four of the wires are populated. Push the tab on top down to disconnect.
While you're at the junk yard cursing at the absurdness of BMW electronics, look for and grab an OBD-II connector and wires from one of the cars. I grabbed one that has a nice little flip door on it. Make sure you get one with plenty of pins populated - you'll need six pins to do it right. The actual pin location/color/etc doesn't matter - you can move the pins around pretty easily, just make sure you have enough of them.
They've listed the BMW part numbers for the relevant connectors. I've copied it here in case the file ever goes missing. I have not verified that these are correct.
Large Crimp Contact: 61 13 8 364 846
Small Crimp Contact: 61 13 6 901 726
Large Seal Grommet: 61 13 8 372 628
Medium Seal Grommet: 61 13 8 366 245
Small Seal Grommet: 61 13 8 369 722
Cheapo Option
I have a personal loathing for paying retail prices for contacts that come on reels. After some digging, I believe that BMW uses TE Connectivity connectors from the MQS Interconnect System. MQS is "Micro Quadlok Systems". I believe MQS is even in the title of some of the BMW parts diagrams.
I found this pdf file from TE, which has a ton of information: http://www.te.com/content/dam/te-com...system-mqs.pdf I have no idea any more how I found that file, but it may be findable from Mouser or some other source.
There are three sizes of pins used in the OE harnesses. I believe they are as follows:
Small - "Receptacle, 0.63mm". These are female contacts used in the sensor connectors - all four wheel speed connectors, both pressure sensor connectors, and the yaw/accel sensor. The TE part number I used is 965906-1. I bought mine from Mouser - 100 for $16.
Medium - "Receptacle, 1.5mm". These are female contacts used in the large 47-pin connector for the control module. The TE part number I used is 1355556-1. I bought mine from Mouser - $0.129 each.
Large - I did not buy new pins for this, but I'll grab some more dimensions and post info here. These are the connectors for the four power wires in the large 47-pin connector at the control module. Since they're not signal wires and pretty good sized, I just re-used the contacts that came with the junk yard connector.
Seals - For the small and medium connectors, I used TE part number 967067-1. They worked OK, not great. I think the issue was my crimping. I do not have the proper tool (see below). I bought mine from Mouser - $0.146 each.
Crimping
I used the "GM Delphi Weatherpack Crimper Tool", model T-18. It worked great for crimping the wire. It did not work great on the seals, but it did work.
Last edited by thebeerbaron; 03-25-2020 at 02:13 PM.
Reason: correct pin count - it's a 47 pin connector, not 37 dummy
The wire in the BMW is all metric, so any AWG sizes I suggest are approximate.
The wheel speed sensors use approximately 20 AWG wire. The stuff on the BMW is twisted pair. I used Tefzel shielded twisted pair from ProwireUSA. "20 AWG x 2 Shielded Cable". Part M27500/20SB2T23. Very reasonably priced. I bought their "Shield Terminator With 22 Gauge Lead" and terminated one end of each run at the ABS module end.
I also used the shielded twisted pair (STP) for the yaw sensor data lines.
The other wires I just used TXL 20 AWG wire, also from ProwireUSA. Buy a bunch.
For power/ground to the ABS module, I used some 12 AWG wire I had laying around. I'll post more info about how I wired in the power later.
Prowire suggests that Tefzel is difficult to strip cleanly. They suggest a wire stripper by Ideal and sell it for big money. There's a similar model available far less that does everything you'll need for this job. Also made by Ideal, model 45-092. Strips 22 to 10 AWG. This uses knives to cut the insulation at exact AWG diameters. It will cut the copper wire just as easily, so do not use it on the BMW (metric) wire.
Wow, this is awesome! Definitely following. I almost started going down the path of installing an NB ABS system until I saw this thread.
I scanned the whole thread and haven’t seen the answers to two questions I currently have. Hopefully you guys don’t mind teaching me a few things.
1. How are yaw sensors contributing to the ABS system? Intuitively, I would think that they’re for stability control, not antilock.
2. Is there an actual kit in the works for people like me who can’t fabricate? I see a lot of collaboration among shops and hints about a kit, but I didn’t see an actual announcement. But I may have missed it.
3. What is an “upright?” English isn’t my first language and I get confused when adjectives are used as nouns. I’m also not super experienced with car mechanic things.
4. What would you guys ballpark an all-in cost for this project?
1. How are yaw sensors contributing to the ABS system? Intuitively, I would think that they’re for stability control, not antilock.
Per 3DM Motorsport, you're more likely to experience "Ice Mode" without this sensor.
2. Is there an actual kit in the works for people like me who can’t fabricate? I see a lot of collaboration among shops and hints about a kit, but I didn’t see an actual announcement. But I may have missed it.
I'm not planning on manufacturing a kit. Maybe jpreston will. The BMW parts are all available off-the-shelf. The folks I've mentioned before will make a custom wiring harness for you. After that it's "only" a matter of brake line plumbing and mounting the sensors, neither of which are really conducive to a "kit" form.
3. What is an “upright?” English isn’t my first language and I get confused when adjectives are used as nouns. I’m also not super experienced with car mechanic things.
4. What would you guys ballpark an all-in cost for this project?
I took a middle road of buying the brain/pump and sensors in ready-to-go condition, doing the wiring myself using junkyard connectors, and buying new rear axles and front hubs. I'll tally it up later, but not including parts I screwed up, I would guess I'm into this for close to $1k.
Last edited by thebeerbaron; 05-13-2020 at 06:57 PM.
Reason: fixed picture of upright
12-20-2019, 06:30 AM
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