There's too many coilover options (11 page thread to explain 80 page thread)
08-10-2018, 09:24 PM
#121
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Side note: that set of parts looks damn close to what I’d get. **** all these deals are coming up at once and the bank account says no but the brain says ******* do it.
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08-10-2018, 09:26 PM
#122
That's what I was thinking. I can sell off the Eibach springs and the extra set of OEM tophats separately, and the rest as an assembled set. I'm doing the suspension on the MS3 in a few weeks, while I have the spring compressor on hand I'll take the MSM suspension apart so that I can get started.
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08-10-2018, 10:08 PM
#126
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mgeoffriau, we may have to get talking in the pm’s..
thanks concealer404, I know they’re a little different but didn’t know if it would effect the end result. His parts seem pretty good, not sure about the 4” sleeve vs the 5”, but eibach is a name, so I could work with what he has and just grab the final pieces like Maruha top hats and bump stops and all new bushings? Having all that stuff already there means I just have to do the “finish work.”
thanks concealer404, I know they’re a little different but didn’t know if it would effect the end result. His parts seem pretty good, not sure about the 4” sleeve vs the 5”, but eibach is a name, so I could work with what he has and just grab the final pieces like Maruha top hats and bump stops and all new bushings? Having all that stuff already there means I just have to do the “finish work.”
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08-10-2018, 10:12 PM
#127
Shorter sleeves are good. You'll never use the full adjustment range of the longer ones. Most of us have to cut down the longer ones anyways. (Or move circlips. Or both)
MSM shocks are valved a bit different. They have more high speed and less low speed damping than B8s. Without frame of reference you won't be able to notice. With, you might.
I prefer the MSMs for my use. YMMV.
MSM shocks are valved a bit different. They have more high speed and less low speed damping than B8s. Without frame of reference you won't be able to notice. With, you might.
I prefer the MSMs for my use. YMMV.
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08-10-2018, 10:16 PM
#129
mgeoffriau, we may have to get talking in the pm’s..
thanks concealer404, I know they’re a little different but didn’t know if it would effect the end result. His parts seem pretty good, not sure about the 4” sleeve vs the 5”, but eibach is a name, so I could work with what he has and just grab the final pieces like Maruha top hats and bump stops and all new bushings? Having all that stuff already there means I just have to do the “finish work.”
thanks concealer404, I know they’re a little different but didn’t know if it would effect the end result. His parts seem pretty good, not sure about the 4” sleeve vs the 5”, but eibach is a name, so I could work with what he has and just grab the final pieces like Maruha top hats and bump stops and all new bushings? Having all that stuff already there means I just have to do the “finish work.”
- Those Eibach's are OEM-style lowering springs. They were on the MSM shocks that I purchased, and would be removed and sold off. The Summit Racing springs listed at the bottom are what would be used.
- MSM shocks are definitely not new. No idea on mileage.
- 4" sleeves are actually preferable. If you read through the Bilstein thread, you'll see that many with the longer sleeves had to cut them down to ensure they don't hit under full compression since they may extend past the shock body.
- Already has FCM bumpstops, I'd have to look again to be sure but I believe they were in good shape, don't think they'd need to be replaced.
- I'm happy to discuss selling this stuff, just be aware it's probably a few weeks before I could get to assembling anything if that's the way you wanted it.
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08-10-2018, 10:20 PM
#130
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Shorter sleeves are good. You'll never use the full adjustment range of the longer ones. Most of us have to cut down the longer ones anyways. (Or move circlips. Or both)
MSM shocks are valved a bit different. They have more high speed and less low speed damping than B8s. Without frame of reference you won't be able to notice. With, you might.
I prefer the MSMs for my use. YMMV.
MSM shocks are valved a bit different. They have more high speed and less low speed damping than B8s. Without frame of reference you won't be able to notice. With, you might.
I prefer the MSMs for my use. YMMV.
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08-10-2018, 10:23 PM
#131
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i could assemble it if you didn’t want to, I also just bought brand new RPF1’s and might need a few weeks of recovery time myself lol. Keep me updated with what you’re doing. I see the summit springs at the bottom now, they’ll work fine for my use. And bilstein b8’s are out of stock anyway. $450ish brand new. I’m definitely a budget guy, so used MSM is always a good option (could get them rebuilt & painted if I felt like spending moneys, maybe when they blow).
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08-11-2018, 02:17 PM
#133
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08-12-2018, 04:16 PM
#136
Someone ask me to join in to provide some info.
As I am not a trader here, I am only going to provide information and some opinion, reference to MeisterR are only used as tangible example.
Take what I say with a grain of salt (or use a whole case of salt if you wish); it is only added information for your continue research.
There is a reason why the front and rear springs rate is very close, and that is because of what the MeisterR ZetaCRD was designed for.
In this setup, the rear wheel frequency is actually stiffer than the front, some call this "flat ride".
The entire setup also keep the wheel frequency around the 1.6Hz to 1.8Hz area, so nothing too stiff.
These setup are design as a good "fast road" suspension, because compliancy are important over uneven road surfaces for traction.
If you have a front engine rear wheel drive car, you normally have the rear "softer".
That is because you want the drive wheel to be softer so under power the tire will find traction.
This is why the split on track focused setup generally are further apart, such as ClubRace that run 12.5kg front 7kg rear; as the rear will be softer than the front in this case.
So I wouldn't call the 6/5 setup "no good", but it certainly wasn't designed to be a focused auto-cross car for sure.
What is best for you will always depend on your personal preference and focus.
I probably won't understand the hate of a dual perch design. Modular design have its advantage and disadvantage.
The biggest advantage I say the dual perch design provide more ride height flexibility; you just don't have to worry about customers having a horrible ride because they lowered the car too much.
You certainly don't use a generic length shock body, a modular design mean you can easily change damper length / damper travel of damper; that is the whole idea of the design.
It also allows you to engineer you way around damper travel restriction depending on what you want the product to focus on.
If you look at the ZetaCRD-LT (Long Travel), it has 145mm travel in the front, 125mm travel in the rear, and the ability to function at 12.0" front / 12.5" rear all the way to OEM ride height of 14" / 14.5" with no change to damper travel.
You don't need to worry about that at the lowest ride height setting that you will be on the bump stop all the time.
You don't have to worry about the tallest ride height setting will top out the damper.
You don't have to worry about the length of the springs will be either too short or too long for your preferred ride height.
The suspension will work out of the box at any of the ride height within it's design.
The ZetaCRD-LT use a dual perch design with helper springs, so you are able to make a interesting adjustment with it.
*You can adjust the damper travel ratio without changing ride height.
Because you can adjust the helper springs and lower bracket independently to offset each other.
Say your damper bottom out but you want to retain the same ride height, all you have to do is push the springs up 10mm, and lower ride height by 10mm using the lower bracket.
You retain the same ride height, but have now traded 10mm of rebound travel for 10mm more compression travel to reduce bottoming out.
Normally you will either have to choose between having the ride height you want but suffer the harsher ride, or have good ride but at a taller ride height.
A dual perch design with a helper springs mean you can adjust the travel ratio at your preferred ride height you want and not have to choose between ride height or ride quality.
I don't think any other suspension on the market have these type of flexibility.
Are these function of a modular dual perch coilovers useful for the average owners?
Maybe, maybe not. But it certainly isn't a disadvantage having them.
Suspension is a personal preference so there isn't really a "best", but there are certainly better and worst within a price bracket.
Anyways, hope some of these info help; all the best in your hunt for your suspension.
Jerrick
As I am not a trader here, I am only going to provide information and some opinion, reference to MeisterR are only used as tangible example.
Take what I say with a grain of salt (or use a whole case of salt if you wish); it is only added information for your continue research.
There is a reason why the front and rear springs rate is very close, and that is because of what the MeisterR ZetaCRD was designed for.
In this setup, the rear wheel frequency is actually stiffer than the front, some call this "flat ride".
The entire setup also keep the wheel frequency around the 1.6Hz to 1.8Hz area, so nothing too stiff.
These setup are design as a good "fast road" suspension, because compliancy are important over uneven road surfaces for traction.
If you have a front engine rear wheel drive car, you normally have the rear "softer".
That is because you want the drive wheel to be softer so under power the tire will find traction.
This is why the split on track focused setup generally are further apart, such as ClubRace that run 12.5kg front 7kg rear; as the rear will be softer than the front in this case.
So I wouldn't call the 6/5 setup "no good", but it certainly wasn't designed to be a focused auto-cross car for sure.
What is best for you will always depend on your personal preference and focus.
I probably won't understand the hate of a dual perch design. Modular design have its advantage and disadvantage.
The biggest advantage I say the dual perch design provide more ride height flexibility; you just don't have to worry about customers having a horrible ride because they lowered the car too much.
You certainly don't use a generic length shock body, a modular design mean you can easily change damper length / damper travel of damper; that is the whole idea of the design.
It also allows you to engineer you way around damper travel restriction depending on what you want the product to focus on.
If you look at the ZetaCRD-LT (Long Travel), it has 145mm travel in the front, 125mm travel in the rear, and the ability to function at 12.0" front / 12.5" rear all the way to OEM ride height of 14" / 14.5" with no change to damper travel.
You don't need to worry about that at the lowest ride height setting that you will be on the bump stop all the time.
You don't have to worry about the tallest ride height setting will top out the damper.
You don't have to worry about the length of the springs will be either too short or too long for your preferred ride height.
The suspension will work out of the box at any of the ride height within it's design.
The ZetaCRD-LT use a dual perch design with helper springs, so you are able to make a interesting adjustment with it.
*You can adjust the damper travel ratio without changing ride height.
Because you can adjust the helper springs and lower bracket independently to offset each other.
Say your damper bottom out but you want to retain the same ride height, all you have to do is push the springs up 10mm, and lower ride height by 10mm using the lower bracket.
You retain the same ride height, but have now traded 10mm of rebound travel for 10mm more compression travel to reduce bottoming out.
Normally you will either have to choose between having the ride height you want but suffer the harsher ride, or have good ride but at a taller ride height.
A dual perch design with a helper springs mean you can adjust the travel ratio at your preferred ride height you want and not have to choose between ride height or ride quality.
I don't think any other suspension on the market have these type of flexibility.
Are these function of a modular dual perch coilovers useful for the average owners?
Maybe, maybe not. But it certainly isn't a disadvantage having them.
Suspension is a personal preference so there isn't really a "best", but there are certainly better and worst within a price bracket.
Anyways, hope some of these info help; all the best in your hunt for your suspension.
Jerrick
I removed your post because you're not a vendor, and the other vendors want you to go pound sand.
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08-13-2018, 01:51 PM
#140
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Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: San Diego
Posts: 557
Total Cats: 54
Jerrick, Emillio, Keith (not sure if you are on this board), Ryan/Brian (Good-Win),
Would you provide a set of CRD+ /Track, Xida, Fox, Vmaxx, Feal coil-overs to someone agreed upon to be neutral in this to be tested?
There are several characteristics that are important and everyone wants to know how well these setups would go against each other. I see important items as:
- best lap time that can be achieved in the same car
- street comfort
- adjustability
- parts availability
- warranty
- price
I mean if you are sure about your product being competitive, this seems like a good way to show it. I understand that each set cost $$ and there would be no expectation of giving them away for good - they would be returned (we can even pitch in to cover shipping cost for whoever is going to be doing testing), and you can provide a previously installed set if you want.
Would you provide a set of CRD+ /Track, Xida, Fox, Vmaxx, Feal coil-overs to someone agreed upon to be neutral in this to be tested?
There are several characteristics that are important and everyone wants to know how well these setups would go against each other. I see important items as:
- best lap time that can be achieved in the same car
- street comfort
- adjustability
- parts availability
- warranty
- price
I mean if you are sure about your product being competitive, this seems like a good way to show it. I understand that each set cost $$ and there would be no expectation of giving them away for good - they would be returned (we can even pitch in to cover shipping cost for whoever is going to be doing testing), and you can provide a previously installed set if you want.
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