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Old 10-25-2010, 02:07 PM   #1
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Default Thinking about switching back to an act puck disk after the last trackday

I bought the FM stage one happy meal last year and have really enjoyed it so far, the drive-ability is great. But on the way home from a track day at the local road course yesterday the clutch started slipping. I'm thinking the organic disk just can't handle the heat and it's probably time to go back to a 6 puck act.

The car is a 1.6 with forged bottom end running 16psi on what once was a greddy(td04h 15g) kit, 225 nt01 tires and some aero. The car sees mixed track and street driving, and has less than 5000 miles on the clutch.

Anyone see any problem with using an act sprung 6 or 4 puck disk with the rest of the FM happy meal combo?
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Old 10-25-2010, 02:50 PM   #2
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You probably should have gone with the S2.

I don't like the engagement on the Spec S3 clutch because its hard on drivetrain parts, but it never slips and never overheats. I'm saving up for a twin disc for my next clutch.
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Old 10-25-2010, 03:51 PM   #3
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I don't have any dyno charts, but I didn't think I was near the torque limit of the stage one. It hasn't ever slipped on the street, or on the track with street tires. Just started with the nittos and minor aero. Anyone with a S2 living at the track with a similar or more aggressive setup?

I avoid spec clutches, had a few stage 3's melt to the pressure plate with the old 240.


I'd love the twin disk setup, but not at twin disk prices.

Last edited by BenR; 10-25-2010 at 05:58 PM.
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Old 10-25-2010, 08:05 PM   #4
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Have you called FM and talked to them about it? I have the FM2 and will be very upset if it start slipping when I start the track the car next spring.
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Old 10-25-2010, 08:23 PM   #5
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Did you have the flywheel turned when you installed it? My ACT performance disc didn't hold up at my recent track event. i think it is because i didn't have the flywheel turned. Either that or the 12% estimated drivetrain loss is underestimated, and I've heard the ACT clutches are conservative with their ratings. Mine should have held 302 at flywheel, and I put down 255 at wheels recently. I ordered an ACT 6 sprung 6 puck. It hasn't been installed yet.
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Old 10-25-2010, 09:30 PM   #6
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Have you called FM and talked to them about it? I have the FM2 and will be very upset if it start slipping when I start the track the car next spring.


Yea, Brandon at FM brought up a very good point that it may be a hydraulic issue.

It makes sense that the fluid might be getting hot to the point of boiling (or that I had a preexisting air bubble), and expanding, the piston in the slave putting pressure on the fork. The hood I was using wasn't vented near the turbo like my other hood is. It didn't slip at the track, but on the way home after my last session, I didn't give the engine bay much time to cool so it might have gotten heat soaked.


I haven't driven the car since I got it home, I'll replace the fluid and do a through bleeding.


The flywheel was brand new when installed, it was a full fm happy meal kit.
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Old 10-30-2010, 06:49 PM   #7
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I think you were right in your first post. I have a FM stage 2 clutch in my 94 1.8l on 10psi. It seemed to hold the power just fine. Wouldn't slip at all, but couldn't take heat. I was at the drag strip and I would make a run and let it cool. Sometimes I let it cool 20-30 minutes and when I made another run it would slip. I doubt my fluid was getting that hot it started boiling in one run in the 1/8th mile, then cooling, the another 1/8th mile run. In my opinion the FM just can't take the heat were throwing at it.

I'm also looking at going to an ACT 4 or 6 puck clutch.
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Old 11-09-2010, 12:50 PM   #8
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The jury is still out, I've got a few more things I want to try before I give up on this clutch.
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Old 11-11-2010, 11:02 AM   #9
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I too am on a FM S1 and it doesn't like repeated abuse. This is also the only clutch that I've driven that even thinking of hovering over the pedal and it will slip. Yes I have proper free play. I'm thinking I have some kind actuation problem but I'm not certain. Does yours take the FULL pedal travel to disengage and the very last bit up top to engage? I've got it adjusted as far out as possible and still have proper free play. It's annoying to drive and doesn't seem to hold the torque its rated for.
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Old 11-11-2010, 11:32 AM   #10
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free play is a function of the upper clutch switch. you want free play...too little and when the fluid expands in the heat is no good.

I dont see how these could just suddenly not hold abuse. clutches are pretty simple, so unless theres really an issue with the PP not holding down hard enough, or the clutch disc itself slipping, it could easily be an issue with hydraulics preloading the diaphragm.

Ive driven on the FM1 ona car making over 275rwhp...we've abused it and autoxed it...no issues.
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Old 11-11-2010, 11:58 AM   #11
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My upper switch is adjusted basically all the way out and the actuation rod is adjusted as long as possible while still having freeplay to get the disengagement point higher. It still takes practically forcing it to the floor to disengage enough to get into reverse. I let up a little I can hear the tranny start spinning. And it wont fully engage unless it ALL the way up, any little pressure on the pedal and it will slip. I've bled the system a few times with no change. My "butter zone" still includes the whole travel. Slave is a few months old and had the same problem with the old one. Replaced this one do to the old one leaking. I'm at a loss.
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Old 11-22-2010, 04:32 PM   #12
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Ok after venting the hood over the turbo, adjusting freeplay in the clutch, bleeding and re-bleeding, and upgrading the fluid. The clutch didn't slip last weekend. I'll update if it starts slipping again.
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Old 11-22-2010, 06:50 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenR View Post
Ok after venting the hood over the turbo, adjusting freeplay in the clutch, bleeding and re-bleeding, and upgrading the fluid. The clutch didn't slip last weekend. I'll update if it starts slipping again.
Would you mind going over your adjustment technique, and new fluid you are using? My car is in the shop now having the 6 puck and replacement 6 speed installed. My disc looked like ***. Glazed really bad. My mechanic said the flywheel was in pretty bad looking shape before he sent it of to be turned. I suspect that this situation would have been avoidable if I had turned the flywheel to begin with. That being said, I was not about to risk it happening again with the organic disc, so I went to the 6 puck.
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Old 11-24-2010, 11:18 AM   #14
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Just got my car back today with the ACT 6 puck installed. It's great! It has almost the same feel as the performance organic disk. It grabs slightly quicker, but it's by no means harsh. It's fine.

Anyone interested in a 6 puck should know that I did not swap from a stock clutch. I have no comparison. I went from and upgraded eedy to the ACT xtreme with organic disk and pedal effort was a lot more, and engagement was much more harsh (quick, no slip).

The jump for xtreme pp and organic disc to xtreme with 6 puck is barely noticeable. I actually like the crispness that it engages.
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Old 11-24-2010, 11:32 AM   #15
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Having gone through a few stock clutchs, an act xtreme, and an act sprung 6 puck, I'd say they're all fairly different.

The stock clutch assembly feels like a feather for pedal pressure.

Xtreme is sorta like stock but with a nice heavy pedal

6 puck is sorta like Xtreme but you have to slip it more at low speeds. If I was going to stay under 300 i definetly would go with a act xtreme.
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Old 11-24-2010, 11:55 AM   #16
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It's an ACT xtreme pp with a 6 puck sprung clutch.

Update:

I can see how people who have to deal with stop and go traffic would not want a 6 puck. I generally don't have to deal with this type of traffic, but experienced it a couple days ago. When trying to SLOWLY creep forward with this style clutch it gets to a point where it starts to shudder. I guess this is the point when the clutch really isn't slipping anymore.

If you live somewhere that stop and go traffic is pretty none-existent, then 6 puck is just fine. I like it. If stop and go traffic is a regular part of your commute, then it would get old pretty quick.

Last edited by miatauser884; 11-28-2010 at 01:46 PM.
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Old 12-01-2010, 12:51 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by djp0623 View Post
Would you mind going over your adjustment technique, and new fluid you are using? My car is in the shop now having the 6 puck and replacement 6 speed installed. My disc looked like ***. Glazed really bad. My mechanic said the flywheel was in pretty bad looking shape before he sent it of to be turned. I suspect that this situation would have been avoidable if I had turned the flywheel to begin with. That being said, I was not about to risk it happening again with the organic disc, so I went to the 6 puck.



Motul RBF600, the adjustment is under the dash on the linkage between the pedal and the master. You need to stick your head in the footwell and look up, take a flashlight(or fleshlight if you're into that kind of thing). There is a threaded rod with a nut that tightens into the clutch pedal. I bled it really well to get the air out, then adjusted the pedal linkage.

To be honest it did slip on the highway on the way to the track, but I think it just had a gaze to it at first from the last track day. It didn't slip again all day.

I typically use unsprung puck disks, I've broken the springs out of other sprung clutches, but the puck disks are a lot harder on the rest of the drivetrain. I really like the driving manners of the FM clutch, hopefully it will save a transmission or two.
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Old 12-07-2010, 11:30 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djp0623 View Post
Did you have the flywheel turned when you installed it? My ACT performance disc didn't hold up at my recent track event. i think it is because i didn't have the flywheel turned. Either that or the 12% estimated drivetrain loss is underestimated, and I've heard the ACT clutches are conservative with their ratings. Mine should have held 302 at flywheel, and I put down 255 at wheels recently. I ordered an ACT 6 sprung 6 puck. It hasn't been installed yet.
It all depends on the wheels tires and break upgrades you have. An r compound tire soaks up tons of power on a dyno, i have seen a 40hp increase to the wheels switching from et street slicks to nitto invo street tires. have also put an additional 10psi in the rear tires of a mustang on mt drag radials and watched it pick up 20whp. also if you have some enormous breaks those are gonna soak up alot more then the stockers would, obviously. you are talking about torque right? you must be making ungody power numbers.
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Old 12-15-2010, 04:25 PM   #19
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Another thing you can do to help the clutch heat issue is drill the bellhousing vent out a little bit. If you use a 1/2" bit to open up the hole at the bottom of the bellhousing it helps cool the disk faster.

Just a simple/free potential solution
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Old 12-15-2010, 06:27 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theshdwconspracy View Post
Another thing you can do to help the clutch heat issue is drill the bellhousing vent out a little bit. If you use a 1/2" bit to open up the hole at the bottom of the bellhousing it helps cool the disk faster.

Just a simple/free potential solution
This doesn't sound like a good idea. And wouldn't you want to do it on the top since heat rises?
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