Track Handling on an OEM suspension - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain discuss the wondrous effects of boost and your miata...

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-06-2014, 01:27 PM   #1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 421
Total Cats: 9
Question Track Handling on an OEM suspension

Looking for some advice or experience on how to make the best handling package within limitations:

In the series we race in ANY non-OEM specification part from the original build of a base car from the factory is subject to a lap penalty. However, modifying the OEM parts is free. OEM specs for a 1994 are as follows:

154/97 lb/in springs
OEM Dampers with bump stops + top hats
19mm Front sway bar
11mm Rear sway bar

Current thought is to first replace the shocks with an "OEM repalcement" like KYB GR2 or more likely the Koni STR.T --- Any other OEM replacement shock we should consider? (Bilsteins are considered an aftermarket upgrade and incur a penalty as they are not on the base Miata unfortunately)

Second, we would be looking to remove a free coil or two on the springs in an effort to increase the spring rate and lower the car. We will also replace the OEM bumpstops with shortened ones.

Lastly, we are looking to drill a new hole up on the OEM front sway bar to shorten the torque arm length and essentially stiffen the system. Possibly removing the rear bar to bias towards slight understeer but preferably nuetral.

If you had to replace one part with aftermarket, what would it be (besides the shocks)? We are thinking the front sway bar

Thoughts or experience is welcomed, thanks in advance
slammed200 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2014, 01:32 PM   #2
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Granbury, TX
Posts: 6,009
Total Cats: 583
Default

You are going to be living on the bumpstops. That's what I'd do. The transition from soft OEM spring to hard rubber OEM bumpstop is nasty.
hornetball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2014, 01:32 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 903
Total Cats: 59
Default

You can revalve stock shocks yourself using 10w40 or something. It's not a pretty process, but it's possible.

What's the AIV for the Miata?
Dunning Kruger Affect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2014, 01:39 PM   #4
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 421
Total Cats: 9
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hornetball View Post
You are going to be living on the bumpstops. That's what I'd do. The transition from soft OEM spring to hard rubber OEM bumpstop is nasty.
I'm not looking forward to it, especially after going through several hours of testing/tuning with open rules to land on the suspension we ran at the end of this year at Road America, handled amazing!
slammed200 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2014, 01:41 PM   #5
mkturbo.com
iTrader: (24)
 
shuiend's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Charleston SC
Posts: 13,775
Total Cats: 1,106
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunning Kruger Affect View Post
You can revalve stock shocks yourself using 10w40 or something. It's not a pretty process, but it's possible.

What's the AIV for the Miata?
With the new chump car rules his stock AIV is between $350-500 depending on what year miata he has. I believe everything he is wanting to do should not change the AIV.
shuiend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2014, 01:43 PM   #6
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 421
Total Cats: 9
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunning Kruger Affect View Post
You can revalve stock shocks yourself using 10w40 or something. It's not a pretty process, but it's possible.

What's the AIV for the Miata?
$400 for the 1994, only thing we could possibly fit in the TCV is a front sway bar and it's a hefty $50 out of our cap at $500
slammed200 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2014, 01:47 PM   #7
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 421
Total Cats: 9
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunning Kruger Affect View Post
You can revalve stock shocks yourself using 10w40 or something. It's not a pretty process, but it's possible.

What's the AIV for the Miata?
A quick google has left me wanting, any leads I can follow to learn more?
slammed200 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2014, 02:14 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 903
Total Cats: 59
Default

I don't have any good resources on hand unfortunately for the shock revalving, but you basically just take a stock shock, drill it, drain it, fit a valve on it and fill it up with new oil, and then spend the better part of the day acting as a manual shock dyno pumping the shock by hand until it firms up.

I can't remember what the cost is for the sleeves and springs, but you might be able to get away with like $50 over (aka +2 laps) AIV by going with an eBay sleeve and springs and using your hand revalved stock shocks.

edit: Non-OE coil springs (including ‘coil-over’ kit): $20/corner
So technically you can get away having your car still come under $500 with this. You'll need to play with the spring rates to figure out what works with the stock sway bars or try to size up/down the rear to 11/12mm.
Dunning Kruger Affect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2014, 02:17 PM   #9
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Leafy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NH
Posts: 9,091
Total Cats: 90
Default

Convert to r-package?

Use honda civic bump stops?

If koni STRTs are legal just order a custom valved set.
Leafy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2014, 02:22 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 903
Total Cats: 59
Default

Why do you **** up every thread about stuff that you have no idea about and nothing to contribute to? Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy yyyyyyyyyy
Dunning Kruger Affect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2014, 02:25 PM   #11
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 421
Total Cats: 9
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunning Kruger Affect View Post
I don't have any good resources on hand unfortunately for the shock revalving, but you basically just take a stock shock, drill it, drain it, fit a valve on it and fill it up with new oil, and then spend the better part of the day acting as a manual shock dyno pumping the shock by hand until it firms up.

I can't remember what the cost is for the sleeves and springs, but you might be able to get away with like $50 over (aka +2 laps) AIV by going with an eBay sleeve and springs and using your hand revalved stock shocks.
Intriguing, does changing the fluid viscosity affect the performance much? Trying to find any sort of dyno charts for something such as this...for most it's not worth the effort so they may not exist.

We had an eBay sleeve setup with Summit springs, but springs are now $80 and out of the question moving forward 2014-on

Every $10 over the $500 limit is a one lap penalty... rounded up. With the competition being as tight as it is, especially against the e30 and e36 crowd, we can't afford any laps.
slammed200 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2014, 02:31 PM   #12
mkturbo.com
iTrader: (24)
 
shuiend's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Charleston SC
Posts: 13,775
Total Cats: 1,106
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
Convert to r-package?
Not allowed in chump car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
Use honda civic bump stops?
Might possibly be allowed, and or really cheap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
If koni STRTs are legal just order a custom valved set.
I have no clue is Koni STRT's would be legal or not, but I bet if you show up with konis and the techs notice them they will not be happy, even if they are "oem".
shuiend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2014, 02:50 PM   #13
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 421
Total Cats: 9
Default

shuiend speaks the truth

An R-Package is "allowed" but will be assigned a starting value of "north of $600" for some un-holy reason. Conversions are not allowed however

Tirerack lists the STR.T Koni as an OEM replacement so I would assume they are allowed. Even so, are they the best option over the KYB GR2? Shaikh has posted in several threads that he prefers the performance of the GR2 over that of the Koni due to the Koni's weak damping curves and tendency to lose consistent performance via heat generation from their internal design. Anyone else have input?
slammed200 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2014, 02:58 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 903
Total Cats: 59
Default

I haven't had much time in front of the tech inspection, but the sleeves and coils are only $80, right? Or is it going to be $10/corner for a "non-OE suspension component"?
Dunning Kruger Affect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2014, 03:05 PM   #15
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 421
Total Cats: 9
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunning Kruger Affect View Post
I haven't had much time in front of the tech inspection, but the sleeves and coils are only $80, right? Or is it going to be $10/corner for a "non-OE suspension component"?
Correct, $80 on the springs/coils. Any other suspension component not already listed in the BCR is $10 each, like end links, top hats, etc. Wish it was $10 a pair...
slammed200 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2014, 03:08 PM   #16
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 421
Total Cats: 9
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunning Kruger Affect View Post
I haven't had much time in front of the tech inspection, but the sleeves and coils are only $80, right? Or is it going to be $10/corner for a "non-OE suspension component"?
What are team are you with? What region are you running in? We run the midwest area around Indiana
slammed200 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2014, 03:10 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 903
Total Cats: 59
Default

Not on any team (haven't driven since 2012) and Southeast. :v

I think it'd be worth the $20 hit to run the coilover setup because you will be able to change your spring rates to make your sway bars work. It's somewhat unfortunate that the Miata isn't competitive because it's so low in HP and so high in AIV.
Dunning Kruger Affect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2014, 03:19 PM   #18
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 421
Total Cats: 9
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunning Kruger Affect View Post
Not on any team (haven't driven since 2012) and Southeast. :v

I think it'd be worth the $20 hit to run the coilover setup because you will be able to change your spring rates to make your sway bars work. It's somewhat unfortunate that the Miata isn't competitive because it's so low in HP and so high in AIV.
Possibly, I'd like to explore every free option first. Most of the TCV budget will need to go towards power adders.

The Miata is very competitive in the SouthWest, particularly Texas. I agree though, it's doesn't seem that the new valuation is quite on par. We'll have to see how it pans out this season. We think we still have a very competitive package the way it's put together.

We may be at AMP this year, check out our website and let us know if you'd like to get back in the saddle!
slammed200 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2014, 03:20 PM   #19
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Leafy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NH
Posts: 9,091
Total Cats: 90
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunning Kruger Affect View Post
Why do you **** up every thread about stuff that you have no idea about and nothing to contribute to? Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy yyyyyyyyyy
I'm sorry I thought this was another one of those guys in that weird canadian racing leauge, where doring pretty much anything other than running stock was considered stock. I'm sure they got penalized for having less than half a tank of gas and taking a poop before racing if it wasnt in the factory manual.
Leafy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2014, 03:31 PM   #20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 903
Total Cats: 59
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by slammed200 View Post
Possibly, I'd like to explore every free option first. Most of the TCV budget will need to go towards power adders.

The Miata is very competitive in the SouthWest, particularly Texas. I agree though, it's doesn't seem that the new valuation is quite on par. We'll have to see how it pans out this season. We think we still have a very competitive package the way it's put together.

We may be at AMP this year, check out our website and let us know if you'd like to get back in the saddle!
I don't think that an extra 5-10hp is going to be worth the $100 of money you have to play with. I'd try to maximize on handling and just hope that the tracks don't have too many long straights.

Thanks for the offer.
Dunning Kruger Affect is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Garrett Turbo, 1.8 Oil Pan, & Misc. Stuff nbdooey Miata parts for sale/trade 9 08-30-2017 10:50 PM
Project Gemini - Turbo Civic on the Cheap Full_Tilt_Boogie Build Threads 57 07-19-2017 05:11 PM
1994 Spec Miata Race Car SM/SM2/SSM For Sale Quinn Cars for sale/trade 6 10-23-2016 08:58 AM
Leaky Wilwoods mx592 Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain 1 10-01-2015 01:45 AM


Tags
handling koni track

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:11 PM.