Track Handling on an OEM suspension - Page 4 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain discuss the wondrous effects of boost and your miata...

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-10-2014, 03:01 PM   #61
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 903
Total Cats: 59
Default

Bumpstops are $10 a pop.
Dunning Kruger Affect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2014, 03:07 PM   #62
mkturbo.com
iTrader: (24)
 
shuiend's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Charleston SC
Posts: 13,776
Total Cats: 1,106
Default

Having helped crew for a team that placed 16th in a 24 enduro race at VIR with not a single driver ever having been on the track before I think we are over thinking this. The only reason we were not top 5 was breaking a stock shop and spending an hour replacing it at like 2am. As far as I know the only suspension mods done were cutting the stock springs and possibly a swaybar of some sort. They were running on older beat up shocks. So I think to be completive all you need would be new OEM shocks, cut springs, and aero. I would focus more on driver skill and reliability of the car over getting the littlest bit out of the suspension. If you are constantly in the top 3 then it may be worth looking into all these other crazy ideas.
shuiend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2014, 03:12 PM   #63
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 903
Total Cats: 59
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shuiend View Post
Having helped crew for a team that placed 16th in a 24 enduro race at VIR with not a single driver ever having been on the track before I think we are over thinking this. The only reason we were not top 5 was breaking a stock shop and spending an hour replacing it at like 2am. As far as I know the only suspension mods done were cutting the stock springs and possibly a swaybar of some sort. They were running on older beat up shocks. So I think to be completive all you need would be new OEM shocks, cut springs, and aero. I would focus more on driver skill and reliability of the car over getting the littlest bit out of the suspension. If you are constantly in the top 3 then it may be worth looking into all these other crazy ideas.
This.
Dunning Kruger Affect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2014, 04:20 PM   #64
Elite Member
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 3,051
Total Cats: 7
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunning Kruger Affect View Post
Bumpstops are $10 a pop.
to the "value" of the car.

ie if the "AIV" of their miata is $400 completely stock, and they stack 1 bumpstop on top of one of the oem bumpstocks the value of the car is now $440?

I don't really know the chumpcar rules, but is that what you mean by they are $10 a pop?


And yes, reliability is way more important than getting the last 1 or 2 seconds of lap time. But if the car is already proven to be pretty reliable, the next step is to make it faster?
Efini~FC3S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2014, 04:27 PM   #65
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 903
Total Cats: 59
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Efini~FC3S View Post
to the "value" of the car.

ie if the "AIV" of their miata is $400 completely stock, and they stack 1 bumpstop on top of one of the oem bumpstocks the value of the car is now $440?

I don't really know the chumpcar rules, but is that what you mean by they are $10 a pop?


And yes, reliability is way more important than getting the last 1 or 2 seconds of lap time. But if the car is already proven to be pretty reliable, the next step is to make it faster?
And then another front sway bar is $50 and you'll probably pick up a penalty for the mounting of said swaybar (no clue how much). You're at $490 for an extra bumpstop on all 4 corners, 2 front sway bars, and cut springs.

Alternatively, you put on the bumpstops ($40) and add a header for all +2whp on a stock ECU for $490.

Or, you take $10 hit for a sleeve, $20 hit for a spring, use an OE shock for $0 and you tune the spring rate to work with the OEM sways. So $520 (-2 laps) for a full suspension.
Dunning Kruger Affect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2014, 04:32 PM   #66
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Leafy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NH
Posts: 9,093
Total Cats: 90
Default

After reading both rule sets today. It seems that lemons is out of just have fun clunker racing, and chump wants to be NASA, Special Education Division. The HPV thing is just a points system called money instead of points since none of the values make any ******* sense.
Leafy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2014, 04:49 PM   #67
mkturbo.com
iTrader: (24)
 
shuiend's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Charleston SC
Posts: 13,776
Total Cats: 1,106
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
After reading both rule sets today. It seems that lemons is out of just have fun clunker racing, and chump wants to be NASA, Special Education Division. The HPV thing is just a points system called money instead of points since none of the values make any ******* sense.
Lemons is fun "cheap" endurance racing.
Chump is serious "cheap" endurance racing.
shuiend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2014, 05:25 PM   #68
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,872
Total Cats: 1,790
Default

and your mom is just cheap.
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2014, 12:20 PM   #69
Elite Member
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 3,051
Total Cats: 7
Default

I think the top LeMons cars are both much faster, but also much, much more expensive than the top Chump cars.

LeMons $500 rule doesn't account for the $10,000 in custom machining and labor on some of the cars. I think that's why Chump started changing their rules to include various valuations, prices, performance valuation, etc. etc.

For me personally, the ChumpCar rules/series seems more appealing
Efini~FC3S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2014, 12:25 PM   #70
mkturbo.com
iTrader: (24)
 
shuiend's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Charleston SC
Posts: 13,776
Total Cats: 1,106
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Efini~FC3S View Post
I think the top LeMons cars are both much faster, but also much, much more expensive than the top Chump cars.

LeMons $500 rule doesn't account for the $10,000 in custom machining and labor on some of the cars. I think that's why Chump started changing their rules to include various valuations, prices, performance valuation, etc. etc.

For me personally, the ChumpCar rules/series seems more appealing
I would totally agree that you can build a faster Lemons car then the comparable chump car. With Lemons you can seriously part out the car and make back close to the $500 to spend on actual go fast parts. When I was first looking into building a car I had a ton of ideas of things I could do with that $500 to make it go faster. A bootleg MS built for less then $50 would easily net you 5-10hp on a miata. That alone is a decent sized bump. Try doing that in chump and you will have problems.
shuiend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2014, 02:06 PM   #71
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 903
Total Cats: 59
Default

Chump isn't without it's flaws, mainly that the management sucks.
Dunning Kruger Affect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2014, 05:04 PM   #72
Elite Member
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 3,051
Total Cats: 7
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunning Kruger Affect View Post
Chump isn't without it's flaws, mainly that the management sucks.
Name a racing organization that doesn't have that problem?


IMSA...NASA...SCCA...GRAND AM....F1....

etc. etc.
Efini~FC3S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2014, 07:45 PM   #73
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 903
Total Cats: 59
Default

Lemons?
Dunning Kruger Affect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2014, 09:46 AM   #74
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 421
Total Cats: 9
Default

Updates:

Double sway bar is priced at the full $50 aftermarket value
Bumpstops are $10 each, no bonus for removing OEM springs
Spring rubbers could be a possible path, little to no value add
Cut springs with raised shock perches, small value add unfortunately for the raised perches, still seems to be a viable path

I have located a shock dyno close by, $20 a pop so I need to decide what to test. Thinking the GR2 and STR.T at the minimum. Maybe the Sensen... and then visit the oil replacement for damping adjustments.
slammed200 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2014, 11:15 AM   #75
WAM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 73
Total Cats: 4
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by slammed200 View Post
Updates:
small value add unfortunately for the raised perches.
I thought you said modifying OEM was free. Cutting and rewelding a perch doesn't fit with that?

When you cut springs and lower the car, the shock will now have less compression travel left and more extension. The excess extension could cause a problem by releasing the spring end. We sometimes fix that with helper springs or limit straps but that would cost you. Perhaps you can limit the shock internally if you're going to screw around with it anyway, so get no additional penalty.

Instead of paying for a bigger swaybar, could you relocate the links sufficiently to stiffen the OE one?
WAM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2014, 08:53 PM   #76
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 421
Total Cats: 9
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WAM View Post
I thought you said modifying OEM was free. Cutting and rewelding a perch doesn't fit with that?

When you cut springs and lower the car, the shock will now have less compression travel left and more extension. The excess extension could cause a problem by releasing the spring end. We sometimes fix that with helper springs or limit straps but that would cost you. Perhaps you can limit the shock internally if you're going to screw around with it anyway, so get no additional penalty.

Instead of paying for a bigger swaybar, could you relocate the links sufficiently to stiffen the OE one?
Yes I am still fighting the national tech guy on that one, mods to OEM components have always been understood to be free unless materials are added... he must be new!

We are looking at re-drilling the stock sway bar, need to consider OEM end link length or pay for aftermarket adjustables. Might be able to live with some pre-loading as well
slammed200 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2014, 12:11 AM   #77
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Leafy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NH
Posts: 9,093
Total Cats: 90
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by slammed200 View Post
Yes I am still fighting the national tech guy on that one, mods to OEM components have always been understood to be free unless materials are added... he must be new!

We are looking at re-drilling the stock sway bar, need to consider OEM end link length or pay for aftermarket adjustables. Might be able to live with some pre-loading as well
OEM link length isnt the big issue, you can only pull forward so hard with both feet on the control arm and chassis trying to deflect the rubber bushing enough to get it to mate up with the bar.
Leafy is online now   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Project Gemini - Turbo Civic on the Cheap Full_Tilt_Boogie Build Threads 58 Yesterday 10:04 PM
Garrett Turbo, 1.8 Oil Pan, & Misc. Stuff nbdooey Miata parts for sale/trade 9 08-30-2017 10:50 PM
1994 Spec Miata Race Car SM/SM2/SSM For Sale Quinn Cars for sale/trade 6 10-23-2016 08:58 AM
Leaky Wilwoods mx592 Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain 1 10-01-2015 01:45 AM


Tags
handling koni track

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:02 PM.