Dunning Kruger Affect

Bumpstops are $10 a pop.

shuiend

iTrader: (24)

Having helped crew for a team that placed 16th in a 24 enduro race at VIR with not a single driver ever having been on the track before I think we are over thinking this. The only reason we were not top 5 was breaking a stock shop and spending an hour replacing it at like 2am. As far as I know the only suspension mods done were cutting the stock springs and possibly a swaybar of some sort. They were running on older beat up shocks. So I think to be completive all you need would be new OEM shocks, cut springs, and aero. I would focus more on driver skill and reliability of the car over getting the littlest bit out of the suspension. If you are constantly in the top 3 then it may be worth looking into all these other crazy ideas.

Dunning Kruger Affect

This.

Efini~FC3S

iTrader: (4)

to the "value" of the car.

ie if the "AIV" of their miata is $400 completely stock, and they stack 1 bumpstop on top of one of the oem bumpstocks the value of the car is now $440?

I don't really know the chumpcar rules, but is that what you mean by they are $10 a pop?


And yes, reliability is way more important than getting the last 1 or 2 seconds of lap time. But if the car is already proven to be pretty reliable, the next step is to make it faster?

Dunning Kruger Affect

And then another front sway bar is $50 and you'll probably pick up a penalty for the mounting of said swaybar (no clue how much). You're at $490 for an extra bumpstop on all 4 corners, 2 front sway bars, and cut springs.

Alternatively, you put on the bumpstops ($40) and add a header for all +2whp on a stock ECU for $490.

Or, you take $10 hit for a sleeve, $20 hit for a spring, use an OE shock for $0 and you tune the spring rate to work with the OEM sways. So $520 (-2 laps) for a full suspension.

Leafy

iTrader: (1)

After reading both rule sets today. It seems that lemons is out of just have fun clunker racing, and chump wants to be NASA, Special Education Division. The HPV thing is just a points system called money instead of points since none of the values make any ******* sense.

shuiend

iTrader: (24)

Lemons is fun "cheap" endurance racing.
Chump is serious "cheap" endurance racing.

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

and your mom is just cheap.

Efini~FC3S

iTrader: (4)

I think the top LeMons cars are both much faster, but also much, much more expensive than the top Chump cars.

LeMons $500 rule doesn't account for the $10,000 in custom machining and labor on some of the cars. I think that's why Chump started changing their rules to include various valuations, prices, performance valuation, etc. etc.

For me personally, the ChumpCar rules/series seems more appealing

shuiend

iTrader: (24)

I would totally agree that you can build a faster Lemons car then the comparable chump car. With Lemons you can seriously part out the car and make back close to the $500 to spend on actual go fast parts. When I was first looking into building a car I had a ton of ideas of things I could do with that $500 to make it go faster. A bootleg MS built for less then $50 would easily net you 5-10hp on a miata. That alone is a decent sized bump. Try doing that in chump and you will have problems.

Dunning Kruger Affect

Chump isn't without it's flaws, mainly that the management sucks.

Efini~FC3S

iTrader: (4)

Name a racing organization that doesn't have that problem?


IMSA...NASA...SCCA...GRAND AM....F1....

etc. etc.

Dunning Kruger Affect

Lemons?

slammed200

iTrader: (8)

Updates:

Double sway bar is priced at the full $50 aftermarket value
Bumpstops are $10 each, no bonus for removing OEM springs
Spring rubbers could be a possible path, little to no value add
Cut springs with raised shock perches, small value add unfortunately for the raised perches, still seems to be a viable path

I have located a shock dyno close by, $20 a pop so I need to decide what to test. Thinking the GR2 and STR.T at the minimum. Maybe the Sensen... and then visit the oil replacement for damping adjustments.

WAM

I thought you said modifying OEM was free. Cutting and rewelding a perch doesn't fit with that?

When you cut springs and lower the car, the shock will now have less compression travel left and more extension. The excess extension could cause a problem by releasing the spring end. We sometimes fix that with helper springs or limit straps but that would cost you. Perhaps you can limit the shock internally if you're going to screw around with it anyway, so get no additional penalty.

Instead of paying for a bigger swaybar, could you relocate the links sufficiently to stiffen the OE one?

slammed200

iTrader: (8)

Yes I am still fighting the national tech guy on that one, mods to OEM components have always been understood to be free unless materials are added... he must be new!

We are looking at re-drilling the stock sway bar, need to consider OEM end link length or pay for aftermarket adjustables. Might be able to live with some pre-loading as well

Leafy

iTrader: (1)

OEM link length isnt the big issue, you can only pull forward so hard with both feet on the control arm and chassis trying to deflect the rubber bushing enough to get it to mate up with the bar.