Track Handling on an OEM suspension - Page 2 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain discuss the wondrous effects of boost and your miata...

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-06-2014, 04:18 PM   #21
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 421
Total Cats: 9
Default

Here are some dyno plots of the KYB and the Koni I found over at Miata.net. Is anyone versed in reading these plots and could advise on spring rates that would match well with them?

KYB GR2 (Excel-G)


Koni STR.T
slammed200 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2014, 05:12 PM   #22
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Granbury, TX
Posts: 6,009
Total Cats: 583
Default

Links not working.
hornetball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2014, 05:48 PM   #23
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 421
Total Cats: 9
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hornetball View Post
Links not working.
Not sure, I can see them. Anyone else? Try Ctrl + F5 perhaps and see if they work
slammed200 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2014, 05:54 PM   #24
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Leafy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NH
Posts: 9,091
Total Cats: 90
Default

They work for me. The koni looks mega soft. The GR2 looks like it might be able to handle up to like 400 pound rates, maybe.
Leafy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2014, 06:05 PM   #25
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 421
Total Cats: 9
Default

That was a crap plot of the Koni's, here's a better one of the rears that goes up to higher velocities (STR.T's have been referenced as being the same as Koni Sport's on Full soft). Still look low on matching spring rates?

Attached Thumbnails
Track Handling on an OEM suspension-rx8_koni_sport_front.jpg  
slammed200 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2014, 06:29 PM   #26
Junior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Irvine, Ca
Posts: 277
Total Cats: 23
Default

On the volvo forums the ghetto way to get stiffer sways was to just run two of them. Under your rules would running two stock sways be considered modifying oem?
cjsafski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2014, 06:30 PM   #27
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 903
Total Cats: 59
Default

I wouldn't test my luck with going with a KYB or Koni. The first gen Integra I raced got popped for Tokicos and a stock front sway bar. 110 crank horsepower of fury on Tokicos got 2 penalty laps.

With Chump you need to get it good enough. It's not going to be a Xida or anything, but you can potentially do some real damage with a self re-valved shock and eBay sleeves and springs. You might need to burn a few weekends shaking down the car and finding the right balance so that you don't take laps for non-stock sway bars.
Dunning Kruger Affect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2014, 09:19 PM   #28
Moderator
iTrader: (11)
 
sixshooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 15,664
Total Cats: 1,560
Default

Are spring rubbers allowed? They work. Keep both sways and work on the spring rate balance between front and rear.

Slamming into the bump stops will upset the car. I would almost say to leave them long and shorten the springs so that the transition happens early. If it works correctly, the stops will have room to compress somewhat gradually. I thought I read once that the factory stops start at around 350 lbs/in under compression and go up from there as they get squeezed. Remember that the factory designed the car to contact them under hard cornering.
sixshooter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2014, 10:47 PM   #29
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 421
Total Cats: 9
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cjsafski View Post
On the volvo forums the ghetto way to get stiffer sways was to just run two of them. Under your rules would running two stock sways be considered modifying oem?
Haha that would be something to work out! I don't think that would fly as a no cost mod since it's not necessarily to OEM spec, that is unless the Miata got into some radioactive goo at the plant in Japan-land and sprouted some extra sways bar arms : )
slammed200 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2014, 10:49 PM   #30
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 421
Total Cats: 9
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunning Kruger Affect View Post
I wouldn't test my luck with going with a KYB or Koni. The first gen Integra I raced got popped for Tokicos and a stock front sway bar. 110 crank horsepower of fury on Tokicos got 2 penalty laps.

With Chump you need to get it good enough. It's not going to be a Xida or anything, but you can potentially do some real damage with a self re-valved shock and eBay sleeves and springs. You might need to burn a few weekends shaking down the car and finding the right balance so that you don't take laps for non-stock sway bars.
We will definitely need a few weekends shaking down the car, luckily we have Putnam Park, Waterford Hills, Gingerman, and Gratten Raceway close by!
slammed200 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2014, 10:51 PM   #31
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 421
Total Cats: 9
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sixshooter View Post
Are spring rubbers allowed? They work. Keep both sways and work on the spring rate balance between front and rear.

Slamming into the bump stops will upset the car. I would almost say to leave them long and shorten the springs so that the transition happens early. If it works correctly, the stops will have room to compress somewhat gradually. I thought I read once that the factory stops start at around 350 lbs/in under compression and go up from there as they get squeezed. Remember that the factory designed the car to contact them under hard cornering.
I think those would be a value add, at least $10 per rubber. Will read into them though as they may be a good way to increase spring rate while retaining ride height at a desired level. Have you driven with these first hand?

That's good thought on the stops, either shorten them and go soft or keep them lengthy and use them to effectively increase the spring rates. Regardless, an abrupt change in spring rate is never a nice feeling at threshold grip...
slammed200 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2014, 10:53 PM   #32
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Leafy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NH
Posts: 9,091
Total Cats: 90
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by slammed200 View Post
Haha that would be something to work out! I don't think that would fly as a no cost mod since it's not necessarily to OEM spec, that is unless the Miata got into some radioactive goo at the plant in Japan-land and sprouted some extra sways bar arms : )
Well the miata was made in Hiroshima, there's got to still be some hot pockets from little boy.
Leafy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2014, 10:27 PM   #33
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Little Rock, AR
Posts: 3,110
Total Cats: 127
Default

jacob300zx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2014, 10:43 PM   #34
WAM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 73
Total Cats: 4
Default

Neat rule.

When you cut a spring, you raise the rate by the percentage of the cut. Which is not very much.

What if you did something more radical, like cut the spring in half to double it's rate, but then spacer it to put the ride height back up where you want it. Use modified bumpstops to set the up travel and limit straps to set the down travel. That would give you a racier ride height and higher rates.

For shock damping, I've drilled a drain hole at the top of a shock and drained the fluid. Replaced it with heavier fluid from motorcycle shops. Then put a rubber patch over the hole and secure it with a hose clamp. This was mentioned earlier...but I've actually done this. Worked fine.

For a stiffer front sway bar could you get away with using two stock swaybars, stacked like spoons? I've done that before attaching a lower bar with a whole bunch of hose clamps. You cut the last couple inches off to clear the links.

Kinda sounds like fun.

Last edited by WAM; 01-09-2014 at 10:55 PM.
WAM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2014, 10:47 PM   #35
Newb
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Arvida, Québec, Canada
Posts: 42
Total Cats: 4
Default

Instead of cutting the springs and adding a spacer, would placing solid materiel between the coils doing the same thing? Like an aluminium or hard wood? This would be less hassle and be non-permanent if you want to tune it a bit.
Dalardan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2014, 10:51 PM   #36
WAM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 73
Total Cats: 4
Default

Yes, if you locked out half the coils. Spring rate is inversely proportional to the number of free coils.

But if they object to the spacers or blocks, you could also do it with half springs and just cut away the perch and weld it on higher. Pure mod, no extra parts.
WAM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2014, 11:06 PM   #37
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 421
Total Cats: 9
Default

Those guys did some great backyard engineering work, I've been referencing them a lot! Sure wish we had access to some of those shops or similar equipment, would make all this paper modifications sure go smoother.
slammed200 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2014, 11:12 PM   #38
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 421
Total Cats: 9
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WAM View Post
Neat rule.

When you cut a spring, you raise the rate by the percentage of the cut. Which is not very much.

What if you did something more radical, like cut the spring in half to double it's rate, but then spacer it to put the ride height back up where you want it. Use modified bumpstops to set the up travel and limit straps to set the down travel. That would give you a racier ride height and higher rates.

For shock damping, I've drilled a drain hole at the top of a shock and drained the fluid. Replaced it with heavier fluid from motorcycle shops. Then put a rubber patch over the hole and secure it with a hose clamp. This was mentioned earlier...but I've actually done this. Worked fine.

For a stiffer front sway bar could you get away with using two stock swaybars, stacked like spoons? I've done that before attaching a lower bar with a whole bunch of hose clamps. You cut the last couple inches off to clear the links.

Kinda sounds like fun.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WAM View Post
Yes, if you locked out half the coils. Spring rate is inversely proportional to the number of free coils.

But if they object to the spacers or blocks, you could also do it with half springs and just cut away the perch and weld it on higher. Pure mod, no extra parts.
Sounds like you have some good experience, have any pictures to share of your shock modifications or I would really enjoy seeing that double sway bar.

Raising the spring seat is a sweet and simple idea, no question it was a free mod
slammed200 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2014, 11:25 PM   #39
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 421
Total Cats: 9
Default

I'm reading and looking, it looks like you would have to go with a high durometer rubber to get any significant rate increase on your springs. Could certainly be an extremely handy tuning tool while testing at the track and maybe permanent use. Wonder why these aren't more common. Anyone used these on track or even around autocross or town?

Longacre Racing Online -- Tech Article "Spring Rubber Use"
slammed200 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2014, 11:54 PM   #40
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 421
Total Cats: 9
Default

Anyone ever used SACHS shocks? They're German if my research suits me but I don't see a lot of info on them. Parent company is ZF ZF Friedrichshafen AG | ZF Motorsports
slammed200 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Garrett Turbo, 1.8 Oil Pan, & Misc. Stuff nbdooey Miata parts for sale/trade 9 08-30-2017 10:50 PM
Project Gemini - Turbo Civic on the Cheap Full_Tilt_Boogie Build Threads 57 07-19-2017 05:11 PM
1994 Spec Miata Race Car SM/SM2/SSM For Sale Quinn Cars for sale/trade 6 10-23-2016 08:58 AM
Leaky Wilwoods mx592 Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain 1 10-01-2015 01:45 AM


Tags
handling koni track

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:54 PM.