Track crew: GB feeler for 11.75" rotor bracket for Wilwood Dynalite calipers
 

Group Buy Pricing for package deals is as follows:

Brackets only - $149, $49 deposit due
-TSE brackets only, no hardware

Brackets + Rotors - $499, $125 deposit due <-- Upgrade package for our current BBK customers
-TSE brackets
-Wilwood rotors (rings, hats, and hardware)

Brackets, Calipers, Lines, and hardware - $499, $125 deposit due
-TSE brackets
-TSE hardware and lines
-Wilwood Dynalite calipers

Full Kit - $839, $205 deposit due
-TSE brackets
-TSE hardware and lines
-Wilwood Dynalite calipers
-Wilwood rotors (rings, hats, and hardware)

Full Kit w/ pads - $899, $225 deposit due
-All of the above, plus..
-One set of Hawk DTC-70 or Hawk HP+ brake pads

If I have quoted you a higher figure in PM, ignore it.

Deposits are nonrefundable. Group buy pricing will apply through January 31st, at which point all prices will go up by at least $50-100. Send deposits to info at trackspeed engineering dot com. Be sure to include what package you are purchasing as well as a shipping address.

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I've mentioned this privately to a couple of folks but I'm throwing it out there for all the track junkies to see. Posting it in here vs. the GB section to make sure all the track junkies see it.

Wilwood offers an 11.75x.810 front rotor ring that's bigger than the Corrado rotors most of us are using, and correctly vented as well. The hats are $125/side initiailly, but the benefit is a friction ring that is CHEAP to replace, like $31 retail cheap. This is less than I pay for Corrado rotors right now.

http://www.summitracing.com/search/?...160-0471&dds=1

I have 4 people including myself that have expressed interest in a setup like this. It will be identical to our current kit, except the design of the bracket will change a bit to meet the larger rotor. If you don't have the calipers/lines already, I can do a package deal as well, just contact me separately.

These should clear 15x9 +36 6ULs, I am not sure about any other wheel as of yet.

The more people I can get in on the buy, the cheaper they get (obviously). If we don't get a LOT of interest this will likely be a single-run product unlike our other group buys. Pricing will depend on how many folks we can get, but don't expect to pay less than ~$200-250 for a set. I'd like to offer them for what our current 11" Corrado brackets cost ($170/set) but not if I lose money doing it. Low-quantity high-quality CNC aluminum brackets aren't cheap. :(
If I can get like 6-7 people I will have the drawing done and sent out for an actual quote.

Who's in for cheap big-ass rotors?

0. Sir Curly
1. Savington
2. hustler
3. dtfastbear
4. Kotomile
5. jasonb
6. genesplicer
7. rharris
8. doward

If this setup will clear 15x9 6ULs, should it not also clear the 15x8s? Not sure how much of a shoehorn job this is. Reason I ask is that my car will still be street driven, so I'll be running NT01s on 9s for the track but want to keep my 8s shod with a more street-friendly tire, so whatever I do for brakes ideally would fit under the 8s as well.

Can you PM me a price/breakdown for the whole shebang assuming you get these made... brackets, calipers, associated mounting hardware, hats, rotors, lines.

Whatever I end up doing will involve a two-piece hat & rotor, so if the 11.75" setup fits under 8s then I suppose I will get to weigh the cost/benefit of your stuff versus the new-ish 11" two-piece Wilwood kit that 949 & Goodwin are selling. Because I think that's my other contender at this point.

Scott, you'll have a PM in a second. This really isn't meant to compete with the 11" Wilwood setup, I can't sell an 11.75" setup at cost for the retail price of the new Wilwood kit. If you think an 11" rotor will do the trick and higher replacement costs don't bug you, get one of the new Wilwood kits from Emilio. I want the cheap 11.75s because I've thrown away 4 or 5 sets of Corrado rotors this year due to cracking/warping/grooving and I need something that's flat out bigger.

Got your PM, thanks.
No, of course I understand that. And for the price you're talking, I'm leaning towards 11.75" stuff despite the higher initial outlay, not only for lower rotor costs, but also to just start with as much brake as I can fit under the wheels with hopefully as much thermal capacity as I can ever see myself using in this car, and not worry about it again. It's me wanting 11.75" stuff, if it will fit under 15x8 6ULs, which I don't believe you've answered yet. C'mon, you're in Kali, 6ULs be flowin there like water from the hills, mock it up for a brotha. Hustlicker is on your list and purports to drive his car on the street; is he ballin harder than I thought and actually driving to work on his 9s and NT01s?

Without turning this into a [your 11.75" stuff] versus the Wilwood 11" kits, I'll just ask... how much of your Corrado rotor fail do you think is attributable to the rotor's inadequate design (shitty venting) versus its mere size?

There should be more interest in this thread, because you're all a bunch of filthy liars if you say you're not feeling genitally inadequate for running anything smaller than bbundy's 11.75" rotors.

Sent you a PM Sav.

Also what are the chances of setting up a bracket for the rear? Since i'm running my proportioning valve wide open on the stock 1.8 setup, what options are available for the rear?

M-Tuned already makes a bracket for running 1.8 rear calipers on a 10.9" Sport rotor. You can also grab the entire Sport caliper to go along with the larger rotor. I'll probably end up with the M-Tuned pieces.

Bias should be perfect with an 11.75" front and a 10.9" rear rotor - my current bias is essentially perfect and going from 11"/1.8 rear to 11.75"/10.9" rotors shifts bias rearward by 1%.

Trey and I have both tried the Racing Brake replacement rotors (at $100/pop shipped). I destroyed my set quickly, and Trey cracked one of his recently as well. That leads me to believe that it's size vs. shitty venting.

Do you think the .75 of an inch will really help enough to prevent warping and cracking?

So if i were to get in on it, this is essentially just a new bracket w/ centering ring for said larger rotors (that are also cheaper than corrados?) These would be using the same willwood calipers and pads that are used in TSE's BBK already?

wow, thats too good to pass up. i'm in.

count me in

I have 1st gen, ET40 15x8's so this is going to probably be a problem. However, when I burn-up my Corrado set-up these will go on and Emilio will probably have to sell me another set of 8's for the street.

This might also cure problems associated with rotor warpage with heat. After I track my car, my rotors only wear on the inner and outter side of the outboard surface, which tells me they are changing shape with heat.

You should PM tehJeffman, he's ready to step-up to real brakes.

I'm a maybe, but won't put money into it until they have been tested on a 15x9 wheel.

So I can get these brackets and throw my old TSE brackets away? How much lighter are these rotors compared to the corrado rotors?

Will offset change much? I'd need to know if they'd clear my wheels as the current TSE BBK does.

There are far more rotor ring options in the 11.75" size. Straight vanes, curved vanes, multiple manufacturers, suppliers, outlets, etc. It's a far more common size than 11". The 11.75" size has more developement, racing time and greatly decreased cost. It's a winner all the way around if the Dynalite will fit over it and clear your wheels.

This is true I have been running 11.75” rotors for a number of years and have tried many brands. Before that I had cracked and destroyed several sets of corrado disks.

The cheap $30 Ultra Light 11.75” ones actually seem to work pretty good. And they are lighter than the curved vane HD rotors. The only thing I didn’t like about them was my dyna-pro pads sweep out a slightly larger surface area than the cheap rotors had avalialble so they would develop a lip where they hung over the inside of the friction ring. They also tended to run a little hotter than curved vane HD versions and they start to show the small cracks much sooner.

My opinion is I like the cruved vane HD rotors better. And anything with slots felt like garbage. No slots for me. I am currently running curved vane rotors from Coleman Racing and they seem to be the most durable I have tried.

Bob

Sav, will it clear 15x8 +36 6UL? I am in the same shoe as ScottFW.

You should seriously look at my rear brake setup. I bet brackets for it would be less than $10 to get produced in small quantities. The only problem is I think the stock caliper won’t work with off the shelf 11.75" non vented thin rotors and a 15X9” wheel due to clearance issues with the banjo bolt and the parking brake. Mine are custom 11.44” and I originally chose that size because wilwood made an off the shelf steel rotor in that size. I later found out Steel really sucks for a rotor material so I went to Coleman and had some custom machined from Iron blanks ~$100 each for the rear disks.

Much better match for an 11.75” front.

Bob

I'm in if they fit 6ULs

You could throw them away, or use them as a doorstop, or a paperweight, or as a cooking utensil, or replace your family photos on the mantle with them, or you could form a religion around them and worship them.

Or you could just sell them. ;)

Offset will go slightly inboard, further from the spokes. This may bode well for the 15x8 +40 guys but I won't know until I stick a 36 on it to check for bell clearance. 11.75 is a big honkin' rotor. Perhaps bbundy or cueball can comment on wheel clearance since they both have adapted Mini kits?

The jump from 1.8 rotors to 11" rotors adds 10% to the surface area of the rotor. The jump from 11" to 11.75" adds an additional 9% surface area to the rotor. It's not quite that black-and-white since thermal mass, etc. plays a role, but the general idea is that the 11.75 rotor should be a worthwhile upgrade.

Same calipers, same pads, same lines. The only thing that changes is the bracket.

If they don't clear 9s, they won't get made. Once I have a set of rotors here I will stick a caliper on one and bolt up a 15x9, 15x8 +36, TDs, OEM 16" Sport wheels, and whatever else we have laying around at the time to confirm clearance.

It's just not necessary IMO. Sport rotors already exist, they are fairly cheap, and I have no problems with the rear brakes eating pads or cracking rotors or doing anything funky. It's just a ton of added cost for little/no benefit.

Track tested is what I mean. With the corrado brackets my 15x8 gen1 6uls rubbed the dynalite caliper in one spot on the track on the driver's side.

In for cheap 11" brackets from all yous guys.

I already have a buyer lined up for my 11" M-Tuned Corrado front brake brackets :giggle:

I am also wanting to know if they will work on the track over the 15x8 1st gen 6uls which is what I have now. If they do, and we can make this happen soon, say in the next month or two, I am in because I need to do something for the front.

The ultimate upgrade I lust for is the V8R kit but that is $2300 list. Right now the rears are doing fine on sport rotors and XP8s so I am not sure I 'need' the 4-corner upgrade.

I'd be down for the bracket if made.

Thanks Andrew.

Contemplating this if I can resell my current brackets and can source cheap replacement friction rings locally.

What's the estimated weight difference with these verse the 11" Wilwood rotor? It sounds nice getting more rotor for cheap but if this is at the expense of too much unsprung weight gain it might not be worthwhile?

The replacement friction ring for the Wilwood 11" kit is 7.9 lbm and the replacement friction ring for the 11.75" in question is 8.1 lbm. I'm gonna go ahead and say you don't need to worry about the extra .2 lbm.

Yeah, nice!

Racing Brake lists the weight of a standard stock Corrado rotor at 12.72lbs. Wilwood lists the 11.75 outer rings at 8.1lbs and the hats at 1.6lbs. Assuming everyone's using fairly accurate scales, you'll shave ~3lbs per side going from 11" Corrado rotors to 11.75 Wilwoods.

Will you put together a full kit with the calipers and all if you do this? Or just the brackets? I'm still on stock brakes and may upgrade eventually.

Have you actually read this thread? In the very first post he says:
Then in post #2 I ask:
Then in post #3 he says he will PM me with that info.
And in post #4 I acknowledge receipt of said information.
Seriously bro. Pay attention.

FTW. Nice.

6 more lbs gone! Double bonus.

Lest the natives skin you alive before you read this, yes I can do a package deal. $1012 with calipers, lines, and hardware. You supply pads, either through me or someone else.

Read it yesterday, replied today. So sorry to offend you.

stock 1.8 rotors weigh ~10lbs so looks like roughly even swap to 11.75 rings. w/ iron calipers/mounts replaced with alum. sounds like win.

Hmm.. Tempted now. I've been holding off on piecing a brake setup together until next season but at ~1k that's a pretty damn good deal, especially when replacement rings are 30 bucks a pop.. Assuming you run this front setup, what would you gents recommend on the rear end to keep some semblance of brake balance? (1.8 non-sport stock rears)

Sport rotors with 1.8 calipers or sport calipers (M-Tuned makes a bracket to use the Sport rotor with a 1.8 caliper/bracket).

When I wear out my current 11" friction rings I may be interested in a set of your brackets if they are the right price and are anodised in hot pink. :greddy:

very good deal. I still have a set of rotors to go through. I love the $30 replacement ring part.

I'll likely be interested in this... but down the road.

This will fit any NA/NB front upright, correct? I like.

Yep, should fit 90-05.

The $30 rings are straight vane. The more effective curved vanes are more in the $80 range. As Bbundy said they are better built and longer lasting though. A good buy for the same money as the lesser 11" straight vane rings.

I will likely try a set of directional-vanes to see whether I get significantly more life out of them.

I predict double the life and your pads will last longer.

double? does the ducting design make any difference, or is directional really that much better?

OT: my '95 m3 commuter has directional vane on all 4. respect.

We've already discussed ducting design, it makes a small difference but not a big one. Directional is supposed to be the bee's knees but it needs to be to make up for the added replacement costs.

WTF are the "bee's knees"? Do they have knees?

They're what I use to pleasure your girlfriend. I can't be bothered to discuss this further, I am busy sipping Cris and fucking twins with the Cali crew.

A bunch of guys and two girls? That's a bad ratio to me man. Whatever floats your boat though. I'm not gonna judge.

Never sneak up on a man who's been in a chemical fire.


FYI, I 'm exceeding MOT on my DTC-60's at Eagle's Canyon now. It's tough to be this manly. I don't have this problem at most tracks, but I'm cutting ~75mph off in 5 places here with 4 1/4-mile long straights, lol.
http://www.terrysaytherauto.com/imag...s/ECRTrack.gif
I was braking at 275' for #9 at 135mph early in the session, by 6th lap I was braking at 400' and could not lock the brakes, slowing the car with the trans.
Do we want the slotted rotor to clear the firebrand? I'm on the Raybestos OEM replacements now but I must admit that I miss the crisp pedal of the slotted RB rotor.

I’ve tried both and rotor and pad life went up with the directional rings for sure. Some of that might be because they are heavier having more thermal mass. They definitely seem to handle abuse better without as much thermal stress being apparent after hard use.

I’m currently using Coleman rings both front and rear. 11.75 front and 11.44 rear.

Bob

11.75” rotor options just from wilwood

GT directional vane – 9 lbs. (These are slotted. My experience is the slots suck. They increase pad wear and make it difficult to get even pad transfer with most pad compounds that require a bedding procedure.

HD, directional vane – 8.5 lbs. ( plain directional vane, has worked the best for me)

UL, straight vane – 8.1 lbs. (basic straight vane rotor works well not as well as the directional vane ones.)

ULHD, straight vane – 8.1 lbs. (UL with more expensive machining and balancing for which I’m not convinced it is worth the extra cost.)

ULD, Drilled straight vane -7.2 lbs. (aggressive drilling might be cool for autocross to save weight I think my car is too fast and too heavy for that much loss in thermal mass and added stress risers on the track I think)

ULS, scalloped straight vane -5.4 lbs. (holy cow that is light. I might get a set just for autocross)

SRP, drilled and slotted -8.0 lbs. (street poser version that has a nice anti corrosion coating)

My experience has been the HD directional vane is the best track performer. Currently running rings form Coleman however and I think the material might be better. In saving cost I didn’t have them balanced. I don’t notice any out of balance issues with them.

Bob

Bob you are the man.

My Chikara brackets were $180 and use 01 sport front rotors for a grand total of $35/ea from Mazda.

With all this talk of brake balance, has anyone tried to run the front lines together and through an adjustable proportioning valve and have full line pressure go to the rear?

Let me know if I'm a way off in left field, but it seems like it'd work in my head...i think...

??? Not sure I get your point. Our Corrado brackets are cheaper, and so are the rotors, but this thread is about bigger rotors than Sport/Corrado stuff.

Nobody uses a prop valve on the fronts. The fronts do most of the work when braking and that's how you want it- max line pressure with a consistent 1:1 slope of pedal pressure in to line pressure out for ease of modulation (prop valves adjust a knee point and are inherently non-linear) and adjust the rears as necessary. Max line pressure to the rear can create a dangerously oversteery car under hard braking.

A prop valve is not an end-all solution if your front & rear brake hardware are poorly mismatched. It's more of a fine tuning. Stock Miata brake hardware is matched closely enough that an aftermarket prop valve will let you send enough of an increase to the rear (relative to the stock valve) to create an excessively oversteery car. If your lack of rear brake is caused by upgrading to massive front brakes while keeping stock rear hardware, the solution is to upgrade the rear hardware to bring it more in line with what you've done to the fronts, not to decrease line pressure to the fronts.

I have to admit I tried it once early on when I didnt know what I was doing. It sucked.

Bob

Thanks Scott and Bob. I guess whats the point in increasing the front brakes only to cut pressure to them. kinda defeats the purpose.