Hankook RS-4
So for the driver on a budget, mounting tires on wheels that are less that optimum width is a budget friendly half-way point. No need to hate on it but at the same time, those budget focused drivers need to realize its a budgetary decision, not a the optimum performance solution.
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You are exaggerating my intent tremendously. I was not trying to be insulting at all nor was I calling anyone a "poser". If I want to insult someone, I'll be quite clear about it. IMO, aesthetic reasons are just as valid as performance...just different perspectives. I try not to judge others.
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Joined: Jul 2005
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From: Anacortes, WA
Also note that my local Discount tire that mounts most of my tires cheaper than anyplace else refuses to mount 245's on 10" rims. They won't do tire/rim combo outside of the tire manufacturer specs which pisses me off and I have to go someplace that charges me twice as much.
The "performance" stipulation is conditional. The 1:1 rule for max performance for a radial always works. The variable is if "performance" does not involve steering response, linearity, wear or peak lateral grip but is focused on straight line acceleration grip (drag racing). As this forum is populated by more drivers that like to go around turns fast than drag racers, the miscommunication due to conflicting nomenclature persists.
Rule #1
If you want to make a given tire go around turns faster, mount it on a wheel at least as wide as the the tread.
If keeping the fenders unmodified is more important than getting the most lateral grip potential from your tire, then mounting it on a wheel narrower than the tread is also OK.
Broken down, I see it this way. And this applies to any width tire on any car..
Max lateral (turning) and longitudinal (braking/accelerating) grip for a given tire size with modified fenders: Mount tire on a wheel that is just wider than the tread, even if it means adding flares
Max longitudinal grip, giving up peak lateral performance for that tire while keeping stock fenders or, cheaping out by not buying new wheels: Mount the widest tire that fits your fenders even if it is on a wheel narrower than the tread
Max lateral and longitudinal grip while maintaining stock fenders: Mount the widest tire that fits while mounted on a wheel that is wider than the tread
What is important to note that mounting a 245/40/15 on a 15x9, 225/45 on a 15x8, or 205/50 on a 15x7 does not allow each tire to perform at its best, it will still sometimes provide greater lateral grip than the 225 on 15x9, 205 on 15x8, 195 on 15x7 but steer less precisely, be harder to drive at the limit and wear less evenly. So for the driver on a budget, mounting tires on wheels that are less that optimum width is a budget friendly half-way point. No need to hate on it but at the same time, those budget focused drivers need to realize its a budgetary decision, not a the optimum performance solution.
Rule #1
If you want to make a given tire go around turns faster, mount it on a wheel at least as wide as the the tread.
If keeping the fenders unmodified is more important than getting the most lateral grip potential from your tire, then mounting it on a wheel narrower than the tread is also OK.
Broken down, I see it this way. And this applies to any width tire on any car..
Max lateral (turning) and longitudinal (braking/accelerating) grip for a given tire size with modified fenders: Mount tire on a wheel that is just wider than the tread, even if it means adding flares
Max longitudinal grip, giving up peak lateral performance for that tire while keeping stock fenders or, cheaping out by not buying new wheels: Mount the widest tire that fits your fenders even if it is on a wheel narrower than the tread
Max lateral and longitudinal grip while maintaining stock fenders: Mount the widest tire that fits while mounted on a wheel that is wider than the tread
What is important to note that mounting a 245/40/15 on a 15x9, 225/45 on a 15x8, or 205/50 on a 15x7 does not allow each tire to perform at its best, it will still sometimes provide greater lateral grip than the 225 on 15x9, 205 on 15x8, 195 on 15x7 but steer less precisely, be harder to drive at the limit and wear less evenly. So for the driver on a budget, mounting tires on wheels that are less that optimum width is a budget friendly half-way point. No need to hate on it but at the same time, those budget focused drivers need to realize its a budgetary decision, not a the optimum performance solution.
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Also note that my local Discount tire that mounts most of my tires cheaper than anyplace else refuses to mount 245's on 10" rims. They won't do tire/rim combo outside of the tire manufacturer specs which pisses me off and I have to go someplace that charges me twice as much.
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Newb
Joined: Jun 2011
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From: Houston
Also note that my local Discount tire that mounts most of my tires cheaper than anyplace else refuses to mount 245's on 10" rims. They won't do tire/rim combo outside of the tire manufacturer specs which pisses me off and I have to go someplace that charges me twice as much.
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Also note that my local Discount tire that mounts most of my tires cheaper than anyplace else refuses to mount 245's on 10" rims. They won't do tire/rim combo outside of the tire manufacturer specs which pisses me off and I have to go someplace that charges me twice as much.
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It's a new thing, they mounted race tires for me for years and then up and refused to do it one day about a year ago. I found a local shop that's a little more expensive but much more convenient. Oh well.
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Elite Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,502
Total Cats: 146
From: Anacortes, WA
This is funny because the shops around me that would have a policy to follow manufacturer spec would be the more expensive chains. Jose down the street will put whatever tire on whatever wheel I give him and he'll do it for half what the chains will charge. Love me some Spanish tire shops. $40 alignment to my specs. Yes please.
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I paid $46 about 2 weeks ago to dismount/mount and balance so I could rotate the directional tires on my Subaru DD at my local independent tire shop. They always forget and leave them at bead set pressure, but they are easy enough to air down. Same money for the becauseracecar tire and rim fitments, but they get antsy when I ask them not to use the tire mounting slime lube stuff.
I'm enjoying this thread. Its about time I got a new set of tires.
I'm enjoying this thread. Its about time I got a new set of tires.
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Elite Member
Joined: Sep 2015
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From: San Jose, CA
At the rate you drive your car, just go ahead and get some RR's or something. They will probably only last half a decade but I'm sure you will figure it out.
jkjk... pls dont hate me. k thx bye.
jkjk... pls dont hate me. k thx bye.
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Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2014
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From: Milwaukee, WI
i'm going to put a 245 on a 9" because..
-class rules limit me to a 9" wheel
-245 will give me most longitudinal grip at the expense of some lateral love, which ill benefit from more of the time
-tire life longevity (based on feedback so far) considering I DD my car
-ease of fitment for fender and tamer alignment
-class rules limit me to a 9" wheel
-245 will give me most longitudinal grip at the expense of some lateral love, which ill benefit from more of the time
-tire life longevity (based on feedback so far) considering I DD my car
-ease of fitment for fender and tamer alignment
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Very excited for these. I relly liked the rs3 but everyone has passed them in grip. and they were too low of grip to use with pfc 01 compound. I'll have a set mounted up on my 9"ers in September.
i relly think we should push the manufacturers into offering 275's. it takes 7 years for them to listen to us. we better get that ball rolling. :P
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703.430.3303
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I was able to get a pretty solid A-B-A test at Thunderhill West today. "A" tire was a Maxxis RC-1 with ~8 sessions on them, "B" tire was RS4s with ~4 sessions on them. Did session 3 on RC-1s at 11:50pm, session 4 on RS4s at ~2pm, session 5 on RC-1s at ~4pm. Weather was 70*F, sunny trending to overcast and cooling towards the end of the day. No wind to speak of. Both tires in 245/40 flavor on 15x10 6ULs. Car was Rover (~190whp/~2425lbs). I was consistently in the mid 1:22s all day.
I wasn't able to get a full fast lap on the RS4s (traffic) but I had a 1:23.1 on the dash and 0.8sec up on that on predictive when I got held up, so we'll call that a 1:22.3. Fast lap on the RC-1 was a 1.22.5 in session 3 and a 1:22.0 in session 5. The RS-4 felt faster than it ended up being, surprisingly. My best guess is that the RS-4 feels a bit more precise, which makes it seem faster than it actually is. I will look at GPS traces for both laps on Monday and follow up.
I think the RS-4 is the 200tw we were all hoping it was - not as fast as the RivalS, but a much better track day tire. Just need a Chump/WRL/LDR team to verify wear rate.
I wasn't able to get a full fast lap on the RS4s (traffic) but I had a 1:23.1 on the dash and 0.8sec up on that on predictive when I got held up, so we'll call that a 1:22.3. Fast lap on the RC-1 was a 1.22.5 in session 3 and a 1:22.0 in session 5. The RS-4 felt faster than it ended up being, surprisingly. My best guess is that the RS-4 feels a bit more precise, which makes it seem faster than it actually is. I will look at GPS traces for both laps on Monday and follow up.
I think the RS-4 is the 200tw we were all hoping it was - not as fast as the RivalS, but a much better track day tire. Just need a Chump/WRL/LDR team to verify wear rate.
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In 2 weeks I'll have data from two 7 hour races at the ridge Motorsport park on a vvt swapped NA race car with 150ish whp 225rs4, MCS, air dam,splitter and wing. Car is a front running lucky dog car consistently. I'll share camber and pressure info as well once we see how they are. Have 3 hours on 205 re71r on the car already at the same track for data points. Also with 3.75 camber front and 2.5 rear 3 hours of dual driving the car on the stones had very little appreciable wear compared to what I've seen. It was 35 degrees out and dry that day.
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