So, Keith . . . you planning to change the wheels on your car?

I'm going to continue to use the two sets of 15x8 6ULs I have - they're good wheels, no reason to get rid of them. Any new wheel sets will likely be Jongbloeds - say, if I decide to go with a larger tire size. That depends on what the tire manufacturers do!

Multi piece or forged, yes. One piece LPC-FF, not so much. We have tried really hard to get the Gen 4 6UL's made here but it just isn't possible without OEM level quantities. Like 10,000 pcs silver 15x8 at a time.

All of the OEM's get their wheels made in China and Taiwan, a few from other sources. The trick is having materials auditing and Tier 1 level QC protocol and inspections of every batch. We have done it but it's difficult for a small company. Or previous supplier Gen 2-3 is now the worlds largest forged wheel supplier based in Taiwan.

Jongbloed and Dforce look to be doing things right with their high quality China sourced but USA designed wheels. Before anyone balks at China as a source for light weight race wheels, go no further than the flawless OEM forged wheels on your $60K luxury car to see what's possible. The 20 lbs 17x8 8 lug OEM polished forged wheels on my Ram 2500 Cummins- China. The LPC-FF (Low pressure Cast, flow formed) OEM wheels on my C6 Z06, China. Gen 4 6UL's are being made in China. That will allow us to bring a higher tech wheel at a lower price than ever before. In the mean time, hats off to Jongbloed for taking the ball and running with it. I've been referring folks to FM for wheels for a bit now since the Gen 4's won't be here until probably late summer.

Finally, a rendering of the four-lug Miata version.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1391639139

Makes sense.

Other wheels I have are Enkei Racing brand (RPF-1 on the Silver Miata and PF01 on the G8). They're Made in Japan and are really nice -- but don't come in the 15x9 size I wanted for my 95R clone.

Still wish we had trade policies that favored employment in the US and environmental policies that had a more balanced approach. It wasn't that long ago that US industry saved the world. But I digress.

Looking forward to 6ULs being available again.

The RP-F1 is not made in Japan ;)

Really? Are they allowed to mislabel source (my RPF-1s are clearly cast with "Made in Japan" on the back of the hub)? Or has RPF-1 production been moved?

Doesn't really matter though. RPF-1s don't fit big brakes and only come in 15x7.

Ah, my bad. There is an Enkei cast FF wheel that was made by a factory in Taiwan that I was talking to at one point. Assumed it was the RP-F1. The RP-F1 is actually gravity cast then the outer is roll formed. Probably the only large scale produced aftermarket wheel with that unusual manufacturing process. Virtually every cast wheel that is flow formed whether OEM or aftermarket is low pressure cast, not gravity cast.

Curious, will Gen 4 6ULs be FF? Seems like good technology. I've hit some really nasty potholes with the PF01s on my "even heavier than a Corvette" G8 and come out unscathed.

On Emilio's website it says that the Gen 4 6UL's will feature a rotary forged outer rim, which I think is the same as flow formed.

--Ferdi

I don't suppose that free shipping offer extends to NZ :P?

Cheers,
-Matt

I'm afraid it doesn't - UPS considers that to be international, unfortunately.

Huh ... I imagined the bolting points to be further inboard, i.e., not mucking up the spoke design to the degree the rendering suggests.

As an industrial designer I find myself cringing a bit. This said, as a miata enthusiast, I still applaud Flyin' for sourcing an affordable and robust wheel for the performance minded crowd. Market competition isn't a bad thing.

Now if only Emillio would start pumping out more wheel sets, the used sets wouldn't hold their value so well. ;)

-Zach

Well, we considered moving the bolting points further inboard. But that would have required new hubs and brake rotors, which we figured was a bit much to ask for most people. So we stuck with the usual 4x100 bolt pattern.

I think what he's getting at, is that the lug hole is placed very close to the edge. I noticed this too,and wondered if this is a possible failure point. I already placed my order so i hope that this was thought through and my investment is safe in the hands of the FM folks.

Eh, I wasn't trying to create fear or concerns around the design. I can only assume the manufacturer does a fair bit of structural and moldflow analysis.

For me, it's merely an aesthetic compromise. It's apparent the wheel was not designed for a 4x bolt pattern. Most won't care, but as a designer I spend much of my day making engineering/manufacturing constraints look resolved ... so when it is apparent something was designed for different constraints, well, it niggles me a bit.

Doesn't mean I wouldn't buy a set for track rubber.

Jongbloed has been making high-end racing wheels for three decades. It's fair to say they have a pretty good idea what they're doing.

That's actually the only real complaint I have about them. Aesthetics aren't am end all by any means. Pattern just doesn't flow. Also doesn't matter really for track. Would still buy.

Jongbloed is also one of the main wheel suppliers for SM. This is basically the SM wheel with more width and less weight because of the flow-formed rim. Nothing to worry about here. Did buy.

Ok the 4x100 render matches the nice concave spoke style and dish of the 5x130 render in the first post so based on that info I pulled the trigger.

Looking at photos of the existing 15x7 Spec Miata Jongbloed wheels, I think it's an optical illusion or a mis-rendering of the bolt holes.

http://www.philstireservice.com/wp-c...013/09/jrw.jpg

--Ian

^ agreed.

This is our, PTS, Jongbloed Spec Miata wheel. As you see the lug nuts holes are properly spaced. Unfortunately computerized renderings can be deceiving. Not intentional, but purely a quick design to give an "idea" of what the wheel will look like.

Well, considering it is a CAD model which reflects REAL x/y/z dimensions, I do not see how or why the latest rendering wouldn't be accurate.

If the rendering shown is in fact wrong, they should not have released it. There are instances where showing 'close enough CAD' is appropriate ... 4 extrude cuts at an accurate spacing is is not one of them.

I'm going to assume Keith's rendering is accurate. Suggesting otherwise is a bit too speculative for my tastes.

Zach

If you look at the original 5x bolt pattern wheel, you can see the lug holes are spaced within the the spokes. Keith suggested that was a CAD rendering for Porsche spacing, meaning it is likely 5x130. Shave 30mm off the lug spacing diameter and you end up with roughly the 4x spacing in the latest render. I highly doubt the holes could be inboard of the spokes such as on the spec wheels. It is, after all, a different design.

Case closed. What you see is more or less what you get.

Zach

looks to me like the 4 stud rendering was done at 4X130 instead of 4X100.

We're not changing the design at this point. The group buy is over. So everyone who's skeptical of the rendering and deeply offended by the bolt pattern can simply wait until we have pictures of the actual wheels.

On that note - we have updates!

The pricing has changed. And in a good way. The prices are dropping to $189 for a 15x8, $199 for a 15x9 and $219 for a 15x10. Those are the regular retail prices.

Anyone who took part in the group buy will either get the new pricing (which does not include shipping) or the group buy pricing (which does), whichever is less.

The other news: bronze. We're bringing in a limited number of matte bronze wheels in all sizes. They'll be on the website soon to order. If you already have an order in and want to change, give us a call. This is very much a photoshop job based on the term "matte bronze". I put it together just because people like pictures more than reading.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1392222936

Tough to tell. I did a quick overlay in Photoshop since the renderings appear to be done from the same 'camera' settings.

Looks like the 4x pattern is in fact a tighter diameter than the 5x. This said, it is a photoshop job and definitely not calibrated.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1392220747

-Zach

Any updates on BBK clearance?

I have been told that they will clear all the brakes, although I have not physically confirmed that with a wheel. The Trackspeed 11.75 kit was not checked, I'm not sure that data was sent to Jongbloed in the initial communications. However, looking at the design of the wheel I think we're in good shape.

Thats not what I am seeing looks like the two renderings have the same bolt circle and the center hole on the4 hole seems really large compared to other typical 4/100wheels. I think the rendering is not correct.

There is the magic.

To get a cast 4x100 wheel this size as light as the market wants without forging requires building it for the max load rating of 4x100 only. Try to broaden the use of the tooling by adding pad material for 5x130 (Porsche) and you also have to add material elsewhere for that bolt patterns higher max load rating.

We were the first to make a 4x100 only 15" wheel design to get the weight down. Most of the wheel companies using the fitments we developed have figured this out. The rendering with the small hub pad shows a 4x100 only wheel. If it ends up with the small hub, I would assume its to meet a weight target.

I assume the face concavity will be different between the 3 widths? And the rendering is of the 15x10?

A new drawing is forthcoming -

Stay Tuned!!

In for CGI 5UL :ugh2:

Keith are you guys planning on at least matching the $199 with free shipping pricing for the 15x9 that another vendor is giving on these wheels for the group buy participants?

That was the group buy price. We will honor it OR the new pricing, whichever is lower. I suspect that the current pricing is actually going to cost less.

The email from Bill says: "When the wheels come in, we will bill you either: New price plus shipping or GB price with free shipping, whichever works out to be less for you."

New price ($199) + shipping: Approx $860
GB Price ($219) with free shipping: Approx $880

The problem is the other vendor is giving a better deal:

Other vendor's price ($199) with free shipping: $800

Gotta love price wars on a low-volume specialty product that has yet to be delivered. Make your choice based on who's been giving you the most information and been working hardest to bring these to market - or to save a couple of bucks. Your call.

As early adopters that helped you make it possible by placing orders, we'd like to be thought of as partners or at least good customers, not bitches.

Your call.

Yes, and we're passing along potential savings from our price break that followed. You'll still pay the lowest price we have to offer. I think that's pretty fair.

We are not planning any further discounts at this time. If you want to cancel your order, please contact us. I would ensure that the other vendor can actually fill your order first.

It's generally understood that a group buy is a good deal to encourage early adopters. Your definition of "pretty fair" is that we get the same deal as everyone else (and we should be darn thankful for it).

Except we don't. I really wanted to get a wheel+tire combo to save shipping, separate ordering and paying the local installers. Had I waited a couple of weeks, I could have gotten that from Phil's and Goodwin. I couldn't do that with the FM group buy (I asked).

Anyway, my response in post #100 was a bit harsh. Apologies for that. I wasn't planning to lose any sleep over this, but I'd be lying if I didn't tell you that it has been bugging me a bit. I think your last two posts, especially the "Your Call" were not in keeping with FM's reputation.

It does sound like Jongbloed pulled the carpet out from under you guys a bit though. Used you to gauge demand and then went out to all with a lower price.

There have certainly been a number of changes we did not expect since we originally announced these. We've done our best to keep our customers happy. But all I can provide is the best information I have at the time.

You may get a better deal than someone who waited, it depends on those shipping charges. You WILL get part of the first order, which may or may not be possible for people who wait. Thanks to that group buy, there are a lot more wheels coming in then there would have been. I don't think the bronze wheels would have existed otherwise.

This lowballing has me pissed off. I apologize if I'm not being mister perfect corporate and giving everyone free money just become someone else decided to advertise a very small number of wheels at a low price. MT.net is a place where people don't try to be terribly polite, so I figured I'd just fit in for a bit.

Have a good weekend, I'm out of here.

any up dates on these things? I see my account hasn't be charged yet.

Update: Still not April, still no wheels.

thought maybe you would be in contact with them and say something like " wheels are formed, waiting for final machining"

It would be nice if all manufacturers kept us that closely informed. They're more of a black box.

How about now?































:giggle:

This is pretty much what I see as well. It seems as though manufacturers underestimate the market, then when a reputable retailer steps up to back something, that manufacturer sees the potential and floods the marketplace. This kind of thing happens in my industry all the time(wholesale consumer and commercial truck tire distribution). Could FM have had yongblo0d private label these bad boys as Flyin Miata "5uls/whatevers"?

Actually, Phil's has a long-term relationship with JB. I'll bet when they got word of the FM group buy on the new JB products, they raised Cain with JB. I would have if I were them. FM is the innocent party here and got burned IMHO.

Nothing personal . . . just business.

Anyways . . . patiently waiting. ETA on 225 Rival's from TireRack is April too. The Red car is on jackstands with the engine pulled. My timeline is still looking good (hoping to be on track with the Red car in May).

We've been working with Phil, there's been no Cain raised between us. There's a good relationship there.

Nope..:);)

New 4-lug rendering! Note that the bronze is an approximation.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1394141471
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1394141471

That's sexy.

But . . . I ordered black!!!

Waaahhh!!!!

Yeah, the mockup of that didn't turn out as pretty in higher resolution. But here you go.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1394143452

Wow I'm very happy that I ordered those look great.

It's April!!!!!

Any updates?

Yup, Tokicos are now in stock!


Oh, wheels. The latest word (as of Monday) is that they're on track for delivery at the end of April.

Thanks Keith.
Looking forward to the first real shots of the final product.

:)