Wikileaks....
#181
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: VA, Germany, Afghanistan
Posts: 2,945
Total Cats: 3
I think a better analogy would be... "the C4 you have under your bed could potentially harm people so we should stop you from illegally obtaining more of something that was already illegally obtained."
#182
Just because no harm has come, doesn't mean that it can't or wont. Remember my other post. Some small small detail that seems miniscule can be used by anyone as a part of the puzzle to cause harm. He is facilitating this. The fact that it hasn't harmed anyone YET doesn't mean it is acceptable. Just because Ron Paul doesn't see it, doesn't mean it isn't there. Moreover, If this is acceptable, allowed, and endorsed by people here, something bad will happen, and then everyone will cry why didn't we do something.
#184
I'm a terrible person
iTrader: (19)
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 7,174
Total Cats: 180
So if someone steals all your ****, then gives it to me, and I sell it on CL I did nothing wrong? Or if someone steals a ton of CC numbers and gives them to me and I make a website and say I'm going to release 1 a day to the world I did nothing wrong?
#185
I guess no one gets it. Lets just put it like this. My brother/friend owns a baseball bat. It is secured and locked away, however, being a trusted friend or family member I am allowed access. I access the closet, to which I am trusted by my brother and take the baseball bat, because I am mad at him for digging all of the marshmallows out of the Lucky Charms. So I take said bat, and give it to Captain Douchebag. He clearly doesn't have my brothers best intentions in mind, or the guy that gave him the bat either. Next, Captain Douchebag sets up a stand that says free baseball bats. So, anyone can go up and get this baseball bat and use it how ever they will. A baseball bat isn't designed to harm anyone. It is used to hit a baseball. Most people take the free baseball bats, play baseball, or argue for the rights of the baseball and say that baseballs are people too, and don't deserve to be crudely hit in a sport. So one ******* learns to use the bat to kill someone one. Now he kills your mom with the bat. Not only are you responsible for stealing the bat from your brother and you caused your mom's death, Captain douchebag is responsible for giving the bat to the guy that figured out how to use it to harm your family, therefore causing your mom's death. He facilitated the whole situation by providing the bat to your families worst enemy. Simply put, someone can take plenty of things and find out how to use them to harm you. Planes aren't missles, someone used them as such. Fertilizer isn't meant for bombs. Someone sure made it work. That is just it. Being in the military, Mr. Paul should have realized how compromising a small piece of information can be, no matter how small or insignificant it may seem or the original purpose it is intended it can be used other than intended. One small time or date or other piece that shows that we do anything a certain way can make all of the other intel that the enemy has gathered make sense. There is a reason things are secret or sensitive. The reason the private knew the information is that he was in a position that he needed to know. Everyone involved is at fault. All should be treated as enemies of the United States, because they are.
#187
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/1..._n_795014.html
Questions to consider:
Number 1: Do the America People deserve know the truth regarding the ongoing wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Yemen?
Number 2: Could a larger question be how can an army private access so much secret information?
Number 3: Why is the hostility mostly directed at Assange, the publisher, and not at our governments failure to protect classified information?
Number 4: Are we getting our moneys worth of the 80 Billion dollars per year spent on intelligence gathering?
Number 5: Which has resulted in the greatest number of deaths: lying us into war or Wikileaks revelations or the release of the Pentagon Papers?
Number 6: If Assange can be convicted of a crime for publishing information that he did not steal, what does this say about the future of the first amendment and the independence of the internet?
Number 7: Could it be that the real reason for the near universal attacks on Wikileaks is more about secretly maintaining a seriously flawed foreign policy of empire than it is about national security?
Number 8: Is there not a huge difference between releasing secret information to help the enemy in a time of declared war, which is treason, and the releasing of information to expose our government lies that promote secret wars, death and corruption?
Number 9: Was it not once considered patriotic to stand up to our government when it is wrong?
Questions to consider:
Number 1: Do the America People deserve know the truth regarding the ongoing wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Yemen?
Number 2: Could a larger question be how can an army private access so much secret information?
Number 3: Why is the hostility mostly directed at Assange, the publisher, and not at our governments failure to protect classified information?
Number 4: Are we getting our moneys worth of the 80 Billion dollars per year spent on intelligence gathering?
Number 5: Which has resulted in the greatest number of deaths: lying us into war or Wikileaks revelations or the release of the Pentagon Papers?
Number 6: If Assange can be convicted of a crime for publishing information that he did not steal, what does this say about the future of the first amendment and the independence of the internet?
Number 7: Could it be that the real reason for the near universal attacks on Wikileaks is more about secretly maintaining a seriously flawed foreign policy of empire than it is about national security?
Number 8: Is there not a huge difference between releasing secret information to help the enemy in a time of declared war, which is treason, and the releasing of information to expose our government lies that promote secret wars, death and corruption?
Number 9: Was it not once considered patriotic to stand up to our government when it is wrong?
#188
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: VA, Germany, Afghanistan
Posts: 2,945
Total Cats: 3
EDIT:
I still want an explanation of where the "journalism" involved in this particular situation is, I see no journalists.
AANNNDDD
I guess no one gets it. Lets just put it like this. My brother/friend owns a baseball bat. It is secured and locked away, however, being a trusted friend or family member I am allowed access. I access the closet, to which I am trusted by my brother and take the baseball bat, because I am mad at him for digging all of the marshmallows out of the Lucky Charms. So I take said bat, and give it to Captain Douchebag. He clearly doesn't have my brothers best intentions in mind, or the guy that gave him the bat either. Next, Captain Douchebag sets up a stand that says free baseball bats. So, anyone can go up and get this baseball bat and use it how ever they will. A baseball bat isn't designed to harm anyone. It is used to hit a baseball. Most people take the free baseball bats, play baseball, or argue for the rights of the baseball and say that baseballs are people too, and don't deserve to be crudely hit in a sport. So one ******* learns to use the bat to kill someone one. Now he kills your mom with the bat. Not only are you responsible for stealing the bat from your brother and you caused your mom's death, Captain douchebag is responsible for giving the bat to the guy that figured out how to use it to harm your family, therefore causing your mom's death. He facilitated the whole situation by providing the bat to your families worst enemy. Simply put, someone can take plenty of things and find out how to use them to harm you. Planes aren't missles, someone used them as such. Fertilizer isn't meant for bombs. Someone sure made it work. That is just it. Being in the military, Mr. Paul should have realized how compromising a small piece of information can be, no matter how small or insignificant it may seem or the original purpose it is intended it can be used other than intended. One small time or date or other piece that shows that we do anything a certain way can make all of the other intel that the enemy has gathered make sense. There is a reason things are secret or sensitive. The reason the private knew the information is that he was in a position that he needed to know. Everyone involved is at fault. All should be treated as enemies of the United States, because they are.
#189
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: VA, Germany, Afghanistan
Posts: 2,945
Total Cats: 3
It still is, been to vote lately? In addition to that, isn't it the same people crying that wikileaks is innocent that are condeming the TEA party movement since their goal is to "radically take over the Government"?
#190
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Istanbul, Turkey
Posts: 3,214
Total Cats: 1,687
Jesus ******* christ, KP..
If you honestly believe a word you are saying about all this, please move to a remote island. Urgently.
Wars were started with good intentions.. Holy ******* ****. Unfuckingbelievable.
If you honestly believe a word you are saying about all this, please move to a remote island. Urgently.
Wars were started with good intentions.. Holy ******* ****. Unfuckingbelievable.
#193
Boost Czar
iTrader: (62)
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 79,501
Total Cats: 4,080
The firearm death rate in Washington , DC is 80.6 per 100,000for the same period.
That means you are about 25 per cent more likely to be shot and killed in the US capital.
#195
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Istanbul, Turkey
Posts: 3,214
Total Cats: 1,687
Most of the unemployed, undereducated and unskilled were sent to Germany during the late sixties and early seventies.
Still, incredibly astute of you, considering the fact that you live within the US borders.
This by no means an insult, nor it is meant as a derogatory remark.
It's just that an overwhelming majority of Americans are blissfully ignorant about the rest of the world.
#196
Boost Czar
iTrader: (62)
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 79,501
Total Cats: 4,080
Not exactly.
Most of the unemployed, undereducated and unskilled were sent to Germany during the late sixties and early seventies.
Still, incredibly astute of you, considering the fact that you live within the US borders.
This by no means an insult, nor it is meant as a derogatory remark.
It's just that an overwhelming majority of Americans are blissfully ignorant about the rest of the world.
Most of the unemployed, undereducated and unskilled were sent to Germany during the late sixties and early seventies.
Still, incredibly astute of you, considering the fact that you live within the US borders.
This by no means an insult, nor it is meant as a derogatory remark.
It's just that an overwhelming majority of Americans are blissfully ignorant about the rest of the world.
...[Turks] living in Germany who form the largest ethnic minority in Germany. As of 2010 there is an estimated 3.5 million people of Turkish origin living in Germany.
Today only one quarter of the people of Turkish origin came to Germany as workers, while 53% immigrated as family members and 17% of the adult Turks were born in Germany.
Anyways, all I was suggesting is that while the population in Germany is declining, the Turks make up over three times the amount of welfare recipients than German citizens themselves.
#197
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Istanbul, Turkey
Posts: 3,214
Total Cats: 1,687
The way I read it was that Germany was looking to capture cheap labor, and since there was no work in Turkey, they all left to work in Germany.
Many went back to Turkey...however, the population got out of hand during the family reunification program in the 1970s were the population doubled when Germany allowed families to move to Germany with the workers...To me, immigrating to a country that has jobs, and has an incredibly generous welfare state that allowed you to bring your family along for the ride sounds smart to me.
Anyways, all I was suggesting is that while the population in Germany is declining, the Turks make up over three times the amount of welfare recipients than German citizens themselves.
Many went back to Turkey...however, the population got out of hand during the family reunification program in the 1970s were the population doubled when Germany allowed families to move to Germany with the workers...To me, immigrating to a country that has jobs, and has an incredibly generous welfare state that allowed you to bring your family along for the ride sounds smart to me.
Anyways, all I was suggesting is that while the population in Germany is declining, the Turks make up over three times the amount of welfare recipients than German citizens themselves.
#200
You know, I'm trying to understand where you're coming from but I just can't help but break down and ask.. Do you really not see a reason that any military information should be withheld from the public? I mean I understand the fact that you're a left-winger and think the military is evil and should be dismantled and we should use our words to settle all of the worlds problems. But behind all the irrationality there has to be a kernel of common-sense that understands where we're all coming from.... or is there?
EDIT:
I still want an explanation of where the "journalism" involved in this particular situation is, I see no journalists.
EDIT:
I still want an explanation of where the "journalism" involved in this particular situation is, I see no journalists.
Supreme Court additionally stated quite clearly, in a decision in this very thread, that it is not illegal to publish leaks.
Finally, Wikileaks has NOT published anything that has caused anyone harm. Get this through your heads, people. All they have done is published stuff that has embarrassed our politicians for lying and backstabbing.
Why the hell is this a bad thing? If our politicians are lying to us, shouldn't we have the right to know about it? If our politicians are backstabbers, shouldn't we have the right to know about it?