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Old 12-12-2010, 05:45 PM   #181
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Well your car "could potentially" be used to harm a innocent citizen so we should ban cars.
I think a better analogy would be... "the C4 you have under your bed could potentially harm people so we should stop you from illegally obtaining more of something that was already illegally obtained."
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Old 12-12-2010, 05:52 PM   #182
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Well your car "could potentially" be used to harm a innocent citizen so we should ban cars.
Not quite, My car, My gun, My anything I own can potentially be used for harming anyone. I was bestowed with the responsibility of owning and protecting the way it is used. It would be different if there was some way of monitoring that, but there isn't. What he is doing is giving everyone, license, suspended license, blind, deaf, quadriplegic, and children cars and saying do what you will, and I claim no responsibility. Also, these cars he is giving all the 8 year old quadripelegic blind asian kids are stolen.
Just because no harm has come, doesn't mean that it can't or wont. Remember my other post. Some small small detail that seems miniscule can be used by anyone as a part of the puzzle to cause harm. He is facilitating this. The fact that it hasn't harmed anyone YET doesn't mean it is acceptable. Just because Ron Paul doesn't see it, doesn't mean it isn't there. Moreover, If this is acceptable, allowed, and endorsed by people here, something bad will happen, and then everyone will cry why didn't we do something.
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Old 12-12-2010, 06:31 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by KPLAFIN View Post
I think a better analogy would be... "the C4 you have under your bed could potentially harm people so we should stop you from illegally obtaining more of something that was already illegally obtained."
And the gun you have could potentially kill someone, so let's ban guns.

Oh wait...
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Old 12-12-2010, 06:44 PM   #184
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So if someone steals all your ****, then gives it to me, and I sell it on CL I did nothing wrong? Or if someone steals a ton of CC numbers and gives them to me and I make a website and say I'm going to release 1 a day to the world I did nothing wrong?
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Old 12-13-2010, 12:50 AM   #185
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I guess no one gets it. Lets just put it like this. My brother/friend owns a baseball bat. It is secured and locked away, however, being a trusted friend or family member I am allowed access. I access the closet, to which I am trusted by my brother and take the baseball bat, because I am mad at him for digging all of the marshmallows out of the Lucky Charms. So I take said bat, and give it to Captain Douchebag. He clearly doesn't have my brothers best intentions in mind, or the guy that gave him the bat either. Next, Captain Douchebag sets up a stand that says free baseball bats. So, anyone can go up and get this baseball bat and use it how ever they will. A baseball bat isn't designed to harm anyone. It is used to hit a baseball. Most people take the free baseball bats, play baseball, or argue for the rights of the baseball and say that baseballs are people too, and don't deserve to be crudely hit in a sport. So one ******* learns to use the bat to kill someone one. Now he kills your mom with the bat. Not only are you responsible for stealing the bat from your brother and you caused your mom's death, Captain douchebag is responsible for giving the bat to the guy that figured out how to use it to harm your family, therefore causing your mom's death. He facilitated the whole situation by providing the bat to your families worst enemy. Simply put, someone can take plenty of things and find out how to use them to harm you. Planes aren't missles, someone used them as such. Fertilizer isn't meant for bombs. Someone sure made it work. That is just it. Being in the military, Mr. Paul should have realized how compromising a small piece of information can be, no matter how small or insignificant it may seem or the original purpose it is intended it can be used other than intended. One small time or date or other piece that shows that we do anything a certain way can make all of the other intel that the enemy has gathered make sense. There is a reason things are secret or sensitive. The reason the private knew the information is that he was in a position that he needed to know. Everyone involved is at fault. All should be treated as enemies of the United States, because they are.
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Old 12-13-2010, 01:18 AM   #186
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So, you are saying journalists and the supreme court are enemies of the US Chicks?
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Old 12-13-2010, 03:14 AM   #187
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/1..._n_795014.html

Questions to consider:

Number 1: Do the America People deserve know the truth regarding the ongoing wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Yemen?

Number 2: Could a larger question be how can an army private access so much secret information?

Number 3: Why is the hostility mostly directed at Assange, the publisher, and not at our governments failure to protect classified information?

Number 4: Are we getting our moneys worth of the 80 Billion dollars per year spent on intelligence gathering?

Number 5: Which has resulted in the greatest number of deaths: lying us into war or Wikileaks revelations or the release of the Pentagon Papers?

Number 6: If Assange can be convicted of a crime for publishing information that he did not steal, what does this say about the future of the first amendment and the independence of the internet?

Number 7: Could it be that the real reason for the near universal attacks on Wikileaks is more about secretly maintaining a seriously flawed foreign policy of empire than it is about national security?

Number 8: Is there not a huge difference between releasing secret information to help the enemy in a time of declared war, which is treason, and the releasing of information to expose our government lies that promote secret wars, death and corruption?

Number 9: Was it not once considered patriotic to stand up to our government when it is wrong?
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Old 12-13-2010, 03:50 AM   #188
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Originally Posted by blaen99 View Post
So, you are saying journalists and the supreme court are enemies of the US Chicks?
You know, I'm trying to understand where you're coming from but I just can't help but break down and ask.. Do you really not see a reason that any military information should be withheld from the public? I mean I understand the fact that you're a left-winger and think the military is evil and should be dismantled and we should use our words to settle all of the worlds problems. But behind all the irrationality there has to be a kernel of common-sense that understands where we're all coming from.... or is there?


EDIT:

I still want an explanation of where the "journalism" involved in this particular situation is, I see no journalists.

AANNNDDD


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Originally Posted by chicksdigmiatas View Post
I guess no one gets it. Lets just put it like this. My brother/friend owns a baseball bat. It is secured and locked away, however, being a trusted friend or family member I am allowed access. I access the closet, to which I am trusted by my brother and take the baseball bat, because I am mad at him for digging all of the marshmallows out of the Lucky Charms. So I take said bat, and give it to Captain Douchebag. He clearly doesn't have my brothers best intentions in mind, or the guy that gave him the bat either. Next, Captain Douchebag sets up a stand that says free baseball bats. So, anyone can go up and get this baseball bat and use it how ever they will. A baseball bat isn't designed to harm anyone. It is used to hit a baseball. Most people take the free baseball bats, play baseball, or argue for the rights of the baseball and say that baseballs are people too, and don't deserve to be crudely hit in a sport. So one ******* learns to use the bat to kill someone one. Now he kills your mom with the bat. Not only are you responsible for stealing the bat from your brother and you caused your mom's death, Captain douchebag is responsible for giving the bat to the guy that figured out how to use it to harm your family, therefore causing your mom's death. He facilitated the whole situation by providing the bat to your families worst enemy. Simply put, someone can take plenty of things and find out how to use them to harm you. Planes aren't missles, someone used them as such. Fertilizer isn't meant for bombs. Someone sure made it work. That is just it. Being in the military, Mr. Paul should have realized how compromising a small piece of information can be, no matter how small or insignificant it may seem or the original purpose it is intended it can be used other than intended. One small time or date or other piece that shows that we do anything a certain way can make all of the other intel that the enemy has gathered make sense. There is a reason things are secret or sensitive. The reason the private knew the information is that he was in a position that he needed to know. Everyone involved is at fault. All should be treated as enemies of the United States, because they are.
QFT
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Old 12-13-2010, 04:07 AM   #189
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Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
Oh great, Huffington Post, this should be interesting to read...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
Number 1: Do the America People deserve know the truth regarding the ongoing wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Yemen?
No, not so logn as it compromises the mission of the American military, or the lives of said men and women or our allies in these countries. End of discussion, you want to know what's going on? Join the military, otherwise its really none of your business.

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Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
Number 2: Could a larger question be how can an army private access so much secret information?
Need to know situations put even us measly privates in a position to access Classified information at some points. Apparently someone at some point thought that he was worthy of the Security Clearance that he was given.

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Number 3: Why is the hostility mostly directed at Assange, the publisher, and not at our governments failure to protect classified information?
Really... we're going this route? I bet if they "protected the classified information" by putting a bullet in the kid's head the second they found out like I would like to have done, you same people would be all in an uproar about it.

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Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
Number 4: Are we getting our moneys worth of the 80 Billion dollars per year spent on intelligence gathering?
How many buildings have you been in lately that were blown up? Ok then.

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Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
Number 5: Which has resulted in the greatest number of deaths: lying us into war or Wikileaks revelations or the release of the Pentagon Papers?
Which was done with (at least arguably) good intentions. The leaks were solely to **** the Government off and jeopardize everything we've been working for while "lying our way into war" was done for reasons I'm not getting into in this thread.

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Number 6: If Assange can be convicted of a crime for publishing information that he did not steal, what does this say about the future of the first amendment and the independence of the internet?
Freedom of speech does not protect STOLEN information that the public DOES NOT have the clearance level nor the RIGHT to see or hear. Please refer back to the purchasing stolen goods analogy earlier on this page.

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Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
Number 7: Could it be that the real reason for the near universal attacks on Wikileaks is more about secretly maintaining a seriously flawed foreign policy of empire than it is about national security?
Could it be that the real reason is to protect the lives of innocent Afghans/Iraqis/US Troops? Is it worth trusting that that's why JUST IN CASE? If not, then how about you come join the Army and see if that changes your opinion.

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Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
Number 8: Is there not a huge difference between releasing secret information to help the enemy in a time of declared war, which is treason, and the releasing of information to expose our government lies that promote secret wars, death and corruption?
Really.... I mean come on ....REALLY? This one butt hurt *** gets all bent out of shape and releases a bunch of classified documents to get back at the Government that wronged him so horribly and all the sudden we're pulling out the "what if the governemtn is secretly killing babies with chemical weapons card and that's all he was tryign to tell us" car? Have any of these "death camps" been uncovered by the leaks? Didn't think so.

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Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
Number 9: Was it not once considered patriotic to stand up to our government when it is wrong?
It still is, been to vote lately? In addition to that, isn't it the same people crying that wikileaks is innocent that are condeming the TEA party movement since their goal is to "radically take over the Government"?
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Old 12-13-2010, 05:22 AM   #190
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Jesus ******* christ, KP..
If you honestly believe a word you are saying about all this, please move to a remote island. Urgently.

Wars were started with good intentions.. Holy ******* ****. Unfuckingbelievable.
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Old 12-13-2010, 08:01 AM   #191
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Jesus ******* christ, KP..
If you honestly believe a word you are saying about all this, please move to a remote island. Urgently.

Wars were started with good intentions.. Holy ******* ****. Unfuckingbelievable.
No problem, been thinking about Turkey.. Should be happy there.
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Old 12-13-2010, 08:55 AM   #192
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Wars were started with good intentions?

Over 100000 served for what purpose?
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Old 12-13-2010, 09:37 AM   #193
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Number 5: Which has resulted in the greatest number of deaths: lying us into war or Wikileaks revelations or the release of the Pentagon Papers?
If you consider that there has been an average of 160,000 troops in the Iraq Theater of operations during the past 22 months, and a total of 2112 deaths, that gives a firearm death rate of 60 per 100,000 soldiers.

The firearm death rate in Washington , DC is 80.6 per 100,000for the same period.

That means you are about 25 per cent more likely to be shot and killed in the US capital.
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Old 12-13-2010, 09:40 AM   #194
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No problem, been thinking about Turkey.. Should be happy there.
Really? Most of the Turks are smart and move to Germany....much better benefits handouts.
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Old 12-13-2010, 09:49 AM   #195
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Really? Most of the Turks are smart and move to Germany....much better benefits handouts.
Not exactly.
Most of the unemployed, undereducated and unskilled were sent to Germany during the late sixties and early seventies.

Still, incredibly astute of you, considering the fact that you live within the US borders.
This by no means an insult, nor it is meant as a derogatory remark.
It's just that an overwhelming majority of Americans are blissfully ignorant about the rest of the world.
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Old 12-13-2010, 10:10 AM   #196
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Not exactly.
Most of the unemployed, undereducated and unskilled were sent to Germany during the late sixties and early seventies.

Still, incredibly astute of you, considering the fact that you live within the US borders.
This by no means an insult, nor it is meant as a derogatory remark.
It's just that an overwhelming majority of Americans are blissfully ignorant about the rest of the world.
Quote:
...[Turks] living in Germany who form the largest ethnic minority in Germany. As of 2010 there is an estimated 3.5 million people of Turkish origin living in Germany.
The way I read it was that Germany was looking to capture cheap labor, and since there was no work in Turkey, they all left to work in Germany.

Quote:
Today only one quarter of the people of Turkish origin came to Germany as workers, while 53% immigrated as family members and 17% of the adult Turks were born in Germany.
Many went back to Turkey...however, the population got out of hand during the family reunification program in the 1970s were the population doubled when Germany allowed families to move to Germany with the workers...To me, immigrating to a country that has jobs, and has an incredibly generous welfare state that allowed you to bring your family along for the ride sounds smart to me.


Anyways, all I was suggesting is that while the population in Germany is declining, the Turks make up over three times the amount of welfare recipients than German citizens themselves.
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Old 12-13-2010, 10:22 AM   #197
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The way I read it was that Germany was looking to capture cheap labor, and since there was no work in Turkey, they all left to work in Germany.

Many went back to Turkey...however, the population got out of hand during the family reunification program in the 1970s were the population doubled when Germany allowed families to move to Germany with the workers...To me, immigrating to a country that has jobs, and has an incredibly generous welfare state that allowed you to bring your family along for the ride sounds smart to me.


Anyways, all I was suggesting is that while the population in Germany is declining, the Turks make up over three times the amount of welfare recipients than German citizens themselves.
Correct on all counts, which still does not make me wrong when I say "Most of the unemployed, undereducated and unskilled were sent to Germany during the late sixties and early seventies".
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Old 12-13-2010, 10:28 AM   #198
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So it's settled: Assange is in the right on his plans for the destruction of the USA!
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Old 12-13-2010, 10:32 AM   #199
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So it's settled: Assange is in the right on his plans for the destruction of the universe!
fixed.
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Old 12-13-2010, 12:34 PM   #200
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Originally Posted by KPLAFIN View Post
You know, I'm trying to understand where you're coming from but I just can't help but break down and ask.. Do you really not see a reason that any military information should be withheld from the public? I mean I understand the fact that you're a left-winger and think the military is evil and should be dismantled and we should use our words to settle all of the worlds problems. But behind all the irrationality there has to be a kernel of common-sense that understands where we're all coming from.... or is there?


EDIT:

I still want an explanation of where the "journalism" involved in this particular situation is, I see no journalists.
The NYT did the same thing Wikileaks did initially with the Pentagon papers, simply publishing them with no commentary.

Supreme Court additionally stated quite clearly, in a decision in this very thread, that it is not illegal to publish leaks.

Finally, Wikileaks has NOT published anything that has caused anyone harm. Get this through your heads, people. All they have done is published stuff that has embarrassed our politicians for lying and backstabbing.

Why the hell is this a bad thing? If our politicians are lying to us, shouldn't we have the right to know about it? If our politicians are backstabbers, shouldn't we have the right to know about it?
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