XEDE to MS - I'm still mixed about how it runs now
03-23-2011, 01:47 PM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Posts: 1,193
Total Cats: 29
XEDE to MS - I'm still mixed about how it runs now
My car was great now it's good.
With the MS I love the idle and low kPa driveability. I can go slow in traffic much smoother now. What I miss though is the slam dunk power. It feels like I have traction control as it builds power slowly and never really pushes me back like before. It's the opposite of a light flywheel effect.
Take that lightly as I still have a lot to learn about MS. Also I'm no longer able to control VVT so that accounts for about 20+ HP/TQ midrange.
I hate pestering Reverant as his time zone doesn't mix well with mine. He's been great with after sales support but I should let him rest a while.
We have recalibrated TPS and the wideband.
I've been autotuning all week with runs to and from work accelerating hard when possible. Trying to get the cells in the boost range all set.
Here is a log showing full throttle run and holding it at 100 TP (not trying to blow the motor and get a good log. It was blizzarding outside here in Canada so it was a bit dangerous as the rear end got loose) and my .msq
My AFR's under boost show tad rich on my Uego gauge while glancing over during runs but the VE tables seem lean??
Could it be base timing, exhaust leak, fuel pump, some other mechanical issue?
I'm going to check the base timing to see if something moved.
Let me know if I've totally messed something up and how we can bring back that lovin feelin......
With the MS I love the idle and low kPa driveability. I can go slow in traffic much smoother now. What I miss though is the slam dunk power. It feels like I have traction control as it builds power slowly and never really pushes me back like before. It's the opposite of a light flywheel effect.
Take that lightly as I still have a lot to learn about MS. Also I'm no longer able to control VVT so that accounts for about 20+ HP/TQ midrange.
I hate pestering Reverant as his time zone doesn't mix well with mine. He's been great with after sales support but I should let him rest a while.
We have recalibrated TPS and the wideband.
I've been autotuning all week with runs to and from work accelerating hard when possible. Trying to get the cells in the boost range all set.
Here is a log showing full throttle run and holding it at 100 TP (not trying to blow the motor and get a good log. It was blizzarding outside here in Canada so it was a bit dangerous as the rear end got loose) and my .msq
My AFR's under boost show tad rich on my Uego gauge while glancing over during runs but the VE tables seem lean??
Could it be base timing, exhaust leak, fuel pump, some other mechanical issue?
I'm going to check the base timing to see if something moved.
Let me know if I've totally messed something up and how we can bring back that lovin feelin......
Reply
0
0
03-23-2011, 02:57 PM
#2
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,085
Total Cats: 375
I love when turbo cars with crappy tunes get on the dyno or track and make me lol.
mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble pshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhpew
mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble pshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhpew
mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble pshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhpew
mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble pshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhpew
mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble pshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhpew
mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble mmble pshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhpew
Reply
0
0
03-23-2011, 03:03 PM
#4
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Posts: 1,193
Total Cats: 29
wonk dit dit
From the movie A Simple Plan.
It means I am at a grade 3 level understanding of what's happpening to my car. Sure I can mechanically rebuild my carburated dirt bikes top and bottom end an tune by jetting. My nitro R/C car runs nice but I am still a noob with MS. My XEDE had fuel and ignition and that's all to adjust and so my brain worked. Once I get above 2 parameters its like I can't taste all the flavors !!
From the movie A Simple Plan.
It means I am at a grade 3 level understanding of what's happpening to my car. Sure I can mechanically rebuild my carburated dirt bikes top and bottom end an tune by jetting. My nitro R/C car runs nice but I am still a noob with MS. My XEDE had fuel and ignition and that's all to adjust and so my brain worked. Once I get above 2 parameters its like I can't taste all the flavors !!
Reply
0
0
03-23-2011, 03:09 PM
#5
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Posts: 1,193
Total Cats: 29
Oh that's not my Ve table, its one of those pictures you look at and after a while an image appears. The image is my facepalm.......
This is after VE Live.
Do I just keep on autotuning? I used a base map and then got correcting with Ve live every time I went out in the car. I have EGO off and Accell at 100% TPS.
This is after VE Live.
Do I just keep on autotuning? I used a base map and then got correcting with Ve live every time I went out in the car. I have EGO off and Accell at 100% TPS.
Reply
0
0
03-23-2011, 03:12 PM
#6
wonk dit dit
From the movie A Simple Plan.
It means I am at a grade 3 level understanding of what's happpening to my car. Sure I can mechanically rebuild my carburated dirt bikes top and bottom end an tune by jetting. My nitro R/C car runs nice but I am still a noob with MS. My XEDE had fuel and ignition and that's all to adjust and so my brain worked. Once I get above 2 parameters its like I can't taste all the flavors !!
From the movie A Simple Plan.
It means I am at a grade 3 level understanding of what's happpening to my car. Sure I can mechanically rebuild my carburated dirt bikes top and bottom end an tune by jetting. My nitro R/C car runs nice but I am still a noob with MS. My XEDE had fuel and ignition and that's all to adjust and so my brain worked. Once I get above 2 parameters its like I can't taste all the flavors !!
Reply
0
0
03-23-2011, 03:19 PM
#7
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Posts: 1,193
Total Cats: 29
Will do.
I assume I'll want to make that hour or more full of boost runs all through the rpm range and avoid steady state cruising all the while hitting burn every so often?
I'll report back after I get some more autotuning done over the next while.
Thanks
I assume I'll want to make that hour or more full of boost runs all through the rpm range and avoid steady state cruising all the while hitting burn every so often?
I'll report back after I get some more autotuning done over the next while.
Thanks
Reply
0
0
03-23-2011, 04:09 PM
#8
Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 107
Total Cats: 0
Why would you want to avoid steady state cruise? I'd think if you want it to run right during a steady state cruise (with light load) you'd want to get that scenario dialed in just like everything else. Otherwise you just aren't getting any time on that part of the table.
Use the upper-right corner map in tuner studio to tell what sections you've hit in a given run and what sections you haven't. You want to make as much of the table as green as possible.
EDIT: Have you scaled that table for larger injectors? It looks like you're pulling massive amounts of fuel in some areas, but haven't exercised others at all. Was your base map set up for stock injectors?
Use the upper-right corner map in tuner studio to tell what sections you've hit in a given run and what sections you haven't. You want to make as much of the table as green as possible.
EDIT: Have you scaled that table for larger injectors? It looks like you're pulling massive amounts of fuel in some areas, but haven't exercised others at all. Was your base map set up for stock injectors?
Reply
0
0
03-23-2011, 04:13 PM
#9
Is that wave looking fuel map a joke or is that seriously how your map looks like?
As far as autotuning, you want to go over as many cells as possible. The low rpm/boost/tp steady cruise cells are just as important in making your car smoother overall as the full boost ones.
As far as autotuning, you want to go over as many cells as possible. The low rpm/boost/tp steady cruise cells are just as important in making your car smoother overall as the full boost ones.
Reply
0
0
03-23-2011, 05:04 PM
#12
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Posts: 1,193
Total Cats: 29
My steady state is good while cruising lightly to work on the highway.
The map was from Reverant, and we are both wondering about it pulling fuel. I can say that the dash AFR at boost looks good so I'm not sure.
I'll keep tuning daily to and from work and lunch times.
I'm ordering the vvt this week and get that all squared away.
What about EGO and accell enrich, leave as is?
The map was from Reverant, and we are both wondering about it pulling fuel. I can say that the dash AFR at boost looks good so I'm not sure.
I'll keep tuning daily to and from work and lunch times.
I'm ordering the vvt this week and get that all squared away.
What about EGO and accell enrich, leave as is?
Reply
0
0
03-24-2011, 09:17 AM
#13
Supporting Vendor
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,332
Total Cats: 67
Seen that happen when it was configured for the wrong O2 sensor. Before TunerStudio, I once left the O2 switchpoint in MegaTune at 0.51 volts after putting in a wideband and turned on MT's autotune function - ended up with a map that wouldn't let me get above 30 mph.
Reply
0
0
03-24-2011, 11:27 AM
#18
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Posts: 1,193
Total Cats: 29
Hey Reverant can you send me something like this that applies to my specific car and the MS2 build. Just so I can double check all my settings one more time.
Example:
Example:
Basic Setup:
req fuel ~12
speed density
2
alt
4
4
port
4
even
More Constants
Disabled
Multiply
(Should be include, but requires a retune)
speed density
disabled
Injectors (THESE SETTINGS NEED WORK)
0.88
.2
100
26
66
off
Tach
Miata 99-00
4.00
off
3
Falling Edge
Going Low (I think? Get this wrong, cook coils. Check for hot coils on car)
Wasted Spark
D14
More ignition settings (NEEDS WORK)
Use Table
1st deriv
-----
6.5
10.0
standard
5.5
1
0.7
latency" 6
off
off
Noise Filtering: ALL OFF
Rotary Settings: OFF
General: (most of these you can tweak)
Single Table
Initial Map Reading
105
75
100.0 (lower if you are at altitude)
50
50
50
60
50
50
16x16
Rev Limiter:
Spark Retard or fuel cut if you have a Cat, Spark Retard/cut if you don't
Normal (unless they fixed the low temps)
10
7250
7500 (note this is reving the motor a bit more than stock, use lower numbers if you don't understand)
3
7
EGO:
Single Wide Band (if you have a wideband)
16
1
10
156 (higher if you have a 180* thermo)
1300
100 (you may want 60% here)
150 (you may want ~80 for NA and 120 for turbo here. Considerably lower than max boost.)
20
Simple (I've heard they've fixed the PID here. But I heard they fixed the idle, too)
Advanced. :-)
Startup Idle:
400
70 (at least)
every event
Priming: (these are for my 550s, so 2-3x these numbers)
10.3* 6.0 ms
linear to
174* 2.5 ms
Cranking pulse
10.3 326
174 107
exponential fall off. Just play with it.
ASE
kinda linear
10.3 52
to
174 21
steeper at end.
ASE taper:
10.3 350 to 174 100 linear
Idle Control (START WITH THESE!)
PWM Warmup
Cranking Duty
30f 70% to 175f 60%
PWM Idle
1
Normal
8
PWM Duty
-40f 61
155 32
This takes playing with. On my car, it idles high (~1100 rpm) but I have a huge stereo.
Warmup Enrichment:
-40 251
100 122
155 100
Accel Enrich (I think this is injector dependant)
800
7000
off
Output Port Settings:
off
off
off
PM5(warmup):
coolant > 190 5.0
no second condition
0
0
off
PT7 IAC2 (VICS, I believe)
rpm > 5250 500
no second
0
1
Off
Barometeric (default, which sucks, but there you go)
(skip to knock)
Knock Sensor:
Safe Mode
MS2 AD7/JS4
Low Input
Pull Up
2
300
700
7500
20
0.2
3.0
0.8
1.5
3.0
Overrun fuel cut
on
1500
40
2.5
90
1.5
0
Staged: off
Tacho:
on
JS11
Normal
Overboost: (very good feature for early testing. Set for 8 psi to start)
Fuel Cut
(your target max boost + a couple PSI. ~200)
15 (tweak this number to suit)
Advanced Idle (I've not tested, so leave off)
Tools:
Don't forget to set TPS - likely 98 to 741 but check this
Thermistor: (Note: These settings suck. They work well around 160F, so I use them. Be aware, at high temps, it maxes out and has a hard time being accurate at 200* if you try to correct the resistance for 99* instead of doing what I did. This needs work! Make sure fans work after setting this.)
2490
C
-40 100700
30 2238
82 177
THESE ARE ALL BASELINE! NO PROMISES THEY ARE RIGHT! CHECK THEM ALL< READ UP ON MS-II AND HOW IT WORKS. Bad settings here CAN AND WILL blow up your motor, over heat it, etc.
This thread is to work out good settings, but, everyone share their ideas but nothing here is to be considered a recommendation or an endorsement, including (and especially including) ME!. :-)
That said, this shouldn't be that bad. The only real way to get in trouble is to not understand what you are doing. Don't set these settings and try to run the Indy 500. Load them on and CAREFULLY check everything. Go for a drive and log what you saw, IF it starts.
req fuel ~12
speed density
2
alt
4
4
port
4
even
More Constants
Disabled
Multiply
(Should be include, but requires a retune)
speed density
disabled
Injectors (THESE SETTINGS NEED WORK)
0.88
.2
100
26
66
off
Tach
Miata 99-00
4.00
off
3
Falling Edge
Going Low (I think? Get this wrong, cook coils. Check for hot coils on car)
Wasted Spark
D14
More ignition settings (NEEDS WORK)
Use Table
1st deriv
-----
6.5
10.0
standard
5.5
1
0.7
latency" 6
off
off
Noise Filtering: ALL OFF
Rotary Settings: OFF
General: (most of these you can tweak)
Single Table
Initial Map Reading
105
75
100.0 (lower if you are at altitude)
50
50
50
60
50
50
16x16
Rev Limiter:
Spark Retard or fuel cut if you have a Cat, Spark Retard/cut if you don't
Normal (unless they fixed the low temps)
10
7250
7500 (note this is reving the motor a bit more than stock, use lower numbers if you don't understand)
3
7
EGO:
Single Wide Band (if you have a wideband)
16
1
10
156 (higher if you have a 180* thermo)
1300
100 (you may want 60% here)
150 (you may want ~80 for NA and 120 for turbo here. Considerably lower than max boost.)
20
Simple (I've heard they've fixed the PID here. But I heard they fixed the idle, too)
Advanced. :-)
Startup Idle:
400
70 (at least)
every event
Priming: (these are for my 550s, so 2-3x these numbers)
10.3* 6.0 ms
linear to
174* 2.5 ms
Cranking pulse
10.3 326
174 107
exponential fall off. Just play with it.
ASE
kinda linear
10.3 52
to
174 21
steeper at end.
ASE taper:
10.3 350 to 174 100 linear
Idle Control (START WITH THESE!)
PWM Warmup
Cranking Duty
30f 70% to 175f 60%
PWM Idle
1
Normal
8
PWM Duty
-40f 61
155 32
This takes playing with. On my car, it idles high (~1100 rpm) but I have a huge stereo.
Warmup Enrichment:
-40 251
100 122
155 100
Accel Enrich (I think this is injector dependant)
800
7000
off
Code:
8.0 2000 1000 25.5 3.0 750 999 25.0 0.2 500 600 12.0 0.1 125 100 4.0 68% 600 150 .6 100 0.3 3.0 0.1 130
off
off
off
PM5(warmup):
coolant > 190 5.0
no second condition
0
0
off
PT7 IAC2 (VICS, I believe)
rpm > 5250 500
no second
0
1
Off
Barometeric (default, which sucks, but there you go)
(skip to knock)
Knock Sensor:
Safe Mode
MS2 AD7/JS4
Low Input
Pull Up
2
300
700
7500
20
0.2
3.0
0.8
1.5
3.0
Overrun fuel cut
on
1500
40
2.5
90
1.5
0
Staged: off
Tacho:
on
JS11
Normal
Overboost: (very good feature for early testing. Set for 8 psi to start)
Fuel Cut
(your target max boost + a couple PSI. ~200)
15 (tweak this number to suit)
Advanced Idle (I've not tested, so leave off)
Tools:
Don't forget to set TPS - likely 98 to 741 but check this
Thermistor: (Note: These settings suck. They work well around 160F, so I use them. Be aware, at high temps, it maxes out and has a hard time being accurate at 200* if you try to correct the resistance for 99* instead of doing what I did. This needs work! Make sure fans work after setting this.)
2490
C
-40 100700
30 2238
82 177
THESE ARE ALL BASELINE! NO PROMISES THEY ARE RIGHT! CHECK THEM ALL< READ UP ON MS-II AND HOW IT WORKS. Bad settings here CAN AND WILL blow up your motor, over heat it, etc.
This thread is to work out good settings, but, everyone share their ideas but nothing here is to be considered a recommendation or an endorsement, including (and especially including) ME!. :-)
That said, this shouldn't be that bad. The only real way to get in trouble is to not understand what you are doing. Don't set these settings and try to run the Indy 500. Load them on and CAREFULLY check everything. Go for a drive and log what you saw, IF it starts.
Reply
0
0
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
