hingstonwm

iTrader: (2)

Maybe so, but at least I'm in one piece and running.

Going to miss your adventures, looking forward to the cafe racer build

owenwilliams

hingstonwm, really great build. I'm currently planning an F20c conversion myself. The one thing stopping me at the moment is the fact that the steering rack needs to be moved. I've been advised that this would mess up the steering geometry.
I've looked into three possible solutions to avoid moving the rack: moving the engine and 'box back through the firewall; using a remote oil pump; and dry sumping. As dry sump kits for the engine are readily available this seems like the easiest solution to me and the guy who will be doing the swap.
In your experience of building your car, would dry sumping the engine free up enough space in front of it to keep the rack in it's usual place? Thanks for any help

hingstonwm

iTrader: (2)

I looked into a dry sump, they are still to deep. I don't think you can get the clearance you need due to the tilt of the engine. IMO you have to move the rack. The most important part of moving the rack is keeping it level,and getting the height of the rack correct, so you don't create bump steer issues. You also need to make sure the rack is square so that the tie rods swing through the same plane. I have driven my car hard on track back when the engine was NA, and I had no issues with funky handling. The only thing I have noticed is the car wants to bind a little at full steering lock. This is not an issue since the only time you even come close to full lock is in a parking lot. You will also need a manual rack this will allow the smallest amount of fore and aft geometry change. Stock the tie rods move towards the front of the car. I have the exact amount of change in my setup except the tie rods now move towards the back of the car. Same geometry just reversed...like looking in a mirror. Hope this helps.

owenwilliams

Why the hell didn't I ask you this weeks ago. Brilliant reply, thank you. I think I've got so used to lurking every day on this forum just reading up on stuff that I forgot I could actually ask questions!
I've forwarded your reply to the guy I'm getting to do the build to see what his take on it is. Hopefully his reply doesn't involve the phrase "mess up the Ackerman angles" this time.

hingstonwm

iTrader: (2)

are my ackerman angles perfect? I doubt it. The steering is light and predictable, the car does not do anything funny, It does not wander, or have any difficulty driving on a rutted road. Are there those that don't like my solution? Yes, but the car drives very well. I will try to post up a demonstration video later today.

owenwilliams

Any excuse for a video is fine by me. Haha.

owenwilliams

Mother of God steering geometry is complicated. Found this on a Lotus forum, and it makes me a bit nervous about placing the rack in front of the axle:

"Okay, I know what Ackermann steering geometry is and how it should be set up. (The intersection of the lines projected by the steering arms should intersect on the axis of the rear axle.) I've even seen a set up that I would call "anti-Ackermann" (or maybe "reverse Ackermann") where the steering rack was mounted in front of the axle and the intersection of the lines projected by the steering arms was 8 feet in front of the axle. This setup was a complete disaster and dangerous for street driving..."

Yet you say it's been fine, and it doesn't seem to have been much of an issue for the other guys who've put F20c motors in their Miatas. Also, just to confuse matters, there seems to be a pro-anti-Ackermann arguement, which states that many racecars use anti-Ackermann arrangements because it helps, in some way, around larger radius curves on the track.

Maybe I could lengthen the track rod/steering rack to achieve some kind of Ackermann set up with the rack in front of the axle. Although this might be a daft idea for packaging reasons, I don't know. I'm confused. :(

owenwilliams

Hi (again)
I tried to send you this by PM, but apparently I need 15 posts or more to be able to message you. So I'm afraid I'm going to have to post yet more stuff in your build thread...

"Hello sir
Can I ask exactly how far forward the steering rack needs to be moved from its standard position for this conversion?
I'm determined not to move it, so it's currently a question of working out if it would be cheaper (or more accurately, less ridiculously expensive!) to move the engine through the firewall, or to use an existing dry sump system with a modified/completely new pan. The latter solution is the one currently favoured by my fabricating partner in crime. Either way, having some measurements to go by would be extremely useful to work with.

All the best, Owen"

hingstonwm

iTrader: (2)

Sure Owen
I will try to get measurements and some pics in the next day or so. I am just coming off 3 straight overnight shifts at the hospital so I need to get some sleep. Will post it up soon for you.

hingstonwm

iTrader: (2)

Owen, sorry I have been crazy busy trying to get the SM ready to race. Took a measurement for you. If you measure from the front face of the k member to the front of the mounting bracket for the steering rack the distance is 7 13/16 inches or 198.437mm since you are across the pond. Hope this helps

hingstonwm

iTrader: (2)

Picked up a new oil filter for the car, it is a K&P modular unit. Filter is rated at 35 microns or .00138". More importantly the filter flows like crazy, at 1 pound of pressure 1 square inch of material will flow 1.8 gallons of oil in 1 minute. What does this mean it the real world? No pressure drop across the filter, no going to bypass mode on cold starts so the oil is always being filtered. There is also the bonus feature of being able to clean the element and inspect for particles. I change my oil every 1500 miles and at 20 bucks a filter from the dealer this filter will pay for itself. I also picked one up for the SM.






Drained my catch tank the other day and were is what came out. This is approx 1500 miles of driving. I think I will be draining the catch can every 750 miles from now on.

owenwilliams

Too late with the measurements I'm afraid :P

I went down to Sussex at the weekend and picked up a 2005 43,000 mile F20C engine, box, loom, and ECU. Build thread soon

Faeflora

iTrader: (2)

What the **** does Micronic mean? Microscopic Moronic? I like how one of the features is "looks trick".

Seriously though, that sounds like a great filter. I've wanted to get a reusable or filter can-opener for a while so I could look at the filter media.

Did you get the S1 or S2?

hingstonwm

iTrader: (2)

S1 for both the SM and f20mx5

Faeflora

iTrader: (2)

Thank you. Wherefrom did you acquire it?

hingstonwm

iTrader: (2)

Sorry, didn't see your last post here. I picked mine up from the local speed shop. But you can do a search and find dealers in your area.

hingstonwm

iTrader: (2)

The pressure gauge on the fuel rail took a crap the other day so I ordered up an electric unit. I mounted it in the eyeball vent on drivers left. I may turn the gauge making it easier to see the needle.



Also ordered a MagnaFuel fuel pump to replace my bosch 044 for when I turn up the boost. I picked up another fuel tank. I want to change the location of the outlet bung to the right side of the sump and have it coming straight out of the tank instead of out of the bottom like my current setup. This will allow the fuel to have a straight shot to the filter and into the pump, I think this will provide less resistance from the tank to the filter and pump, It's not an issue now but I don't like my current design.


Here is a shot of my current routing, no very efficient for gravity feeding, although I have had no issues with fuel pressure of pump noise


I have a Ron Davis twin pass radiator coming as well. My current radiator provides adequate cooling, even on the hottest days I have not seen more than 198, but there is room for improvement. I will be fabbing up a new cold side charge pipe and moving the blow off valve to make room for the larger radiator. In this pic you can get an idea of the room I will gain by moving the BOV to between the radiator and engine




Looking to re-tune in about 6 weeks. Im still researching 5 lug conversions for my rear hubs. I have not decided on a solution yet.

m2cupcar

iTrader: (5)

I'm interested in that filter.

owenwilliams

Regarding the small Koyo radiator - assuming that you have not had any cooling issues, even with F/I, I'd love to know exactly which rad that is. I need to order a radiator for my build, and a narrow radiator will give me a bit of room for an inlet air intake beside it.

hingstonwm

iTrader: (2)

I believe it is a 99-00 honda civic radiator, it is koyo's solution to civics that are FI. from what I understand turbos on civics wont fit very well with the full width radiator, so koyo came up with this design for the honda guys. It does a very nice job cooling my engine. I don't think it would stand up to spirited tracking with current set up, but I believe that it
would be more than adequate for NA f20c engines, even spirited driving.