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Old 10-14-2013, 03:57 AM   #21
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The stock ecu will handle exactly 0 pounds of boost.

What the **** are you smoking.
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Old 10-14-2013, 07:29 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curly View Post
Pistons skirts should scrap the sides of the cylinder walls. Is that the scraping you're talking about?

Also, the stock ECU comment was a joke, yes?

The stock ECU comment was a mis-understanding. He meant "Will the stock ECU be ok with the lower static compression" not "Will the stock ECU handle 20psi that i already said i wasn't ever going to run."

Also:



HAI DAVE!!!!!!


This car changed my life. It's a bandaid car, but it's still a ******* riot.


Quote:
Originally Posted by curly View Post
The stock ecu will handle exactly 0 pounds of boost.

What the **** are you smoking.

See above. I've driven this car. Dave needs to learn2megasquirt, but he ain't THAT dumb. :P
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Old 10-14-2013, 09:22 AM   #23
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^ Thanks Ben. For some reason when it says newb under your name people automatically assume you are mentally challenged.

I have a Powercard and timing card for low boost levels. Remeber in this thread where I said I live in California? Well in my area I must pass a test in able to register my vehicles. In order to do so with a supercharger in the engine bay, you need this little thing called a CARB sticker. In order to get this CARB sticker you must buy a supercharger that comes from the manufacture with said sticker. The manufacture pays a lot of monies and jumps through hoops for the California Air Resources Board to be able to put one of these stickers in each of the kits they sell.

Some of the things the smog technician checks while smoging your car will be pully size and fueling and timing equipment (if they are doing their job correctly). This means if my CARB kit left the box with "X" size pullys and a "Powercard", it better have those things on the car when the tech looks. Other wise, I's in troubles. Get it now?

Not that I would ever plan on getting more out of my engine on a California street, but just in case I ever wanted to bring my car to a "closed course"; I was thinking I would get a real engine management system and up the boost a bit. Lets say to my supercharges recomend max rpm or so. I was thinking, since my engine is out and needing a rebuild, I would take this into consideration now.

Can we get back on track now? Is it really the mods job around here to try and flame the new guy?

Yes, I had (and still somewhat) a concern that all the new parts going internal might possibly "not play nice" with the stock engine management. I suppose my mind will be at ease soon enough.

I asked earlier about engine balance. I've still been looking but haven't found a real solid answer so I'll ask again in the hopes someone knows the answer and didn't see the question before.
It is my understanding that my engine is internally balanced. So doesn't this mean the flywheel and pressure plate can be ballanced neutral, attached to eachother but separate from the crankshaft?
I ask because if this can be done, it will allow me to upgrade (clutch and flywheel) later without upsetting the balance.
I would hope for the $500 or so an aftermarket damper costs, it would be also neutrally balanced. Again, in the hopes that when I upgrade later I won't be upsetting balance of the rotating assembly.
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Old 10-14-2013, 09:40 AM   #24
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Internally balanced is a "Yes."

Also: Time for a PNP megasquirt. That way it's just an injector change and "unplug this, plug this in" every time you smog.

8.6:1 will be fine on stock ECU for when you need to smog. 8.6:1 will also be winsauce the rest of the time on Megasquirt when you can cram a bunch of timing on that bad boy.



Also also: Welcome to MiataTurbo. No need for srs. Just creatively insult their mothers back and you'll be fine.
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Old 10-14-2013, 09:42 AM   #25
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you're going to have a good car for 1 day of every 2 years (emissions testing) and a shitty car the other 729 days.

makes total sense.

p.s. you want ARP main studs
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Old 10-14-2013, 10:43 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
Internally balanced is a "Yes."

Also: Time for a PNP megasquirt. That way it's just an injector change and "unplug this, plug this in" every time you smog.

8.6:1 will be fine on stock ECU for when you need to smog. 8.6:1 will also be winsauce the rest of the time on Megasquirt when you can cram a bunch of timing on that bad boy.



Also also: Welcome to MiataTurbo. No need for srs. Just creatively insult their mothers back and you'll be fine.
Thanks man, appreciate it. I have some questions on MS maybe you could help with? I'll PM you later.
How are the newly weds doing? How's you car running?

Quote:
Originally Posted by soviet View Post
you're going to have a good car for 1 day of every 2 years (emissions testing) and a shitty car the other 729 days.

makes total sense.

p.s. you want ARP main studs
Have no mistake, MS is coming. One thing at a time. I need this engine back in the car.
Thanks, I recently added ARP to the list.

Also, if I were to play the switch-a-roo game with emissions equipment, why would I have a shitty car for 729 days? Seems like if one were to do that they might go the other way and have good car for the longer duration and a "shitty car" for the one day.

Last edited by williams805; 10-14-2013 at 10:52 AM. Reason: More info
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Old 10-14-2013, 10:54 AM   #27
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These guys will be better for helping you with MS than i will. I've read some things, but these guys have done it. I run a Haltech on both of the fun cars right now. Will cut my teeth on megasquirt with the 93.

Go ahead and shoot me an email @ celicahalftrac at gmalez dot kom if you want, and i can try to answer things anyways.

We're doing good, though she wants to get on the road again already. :P MSM is still running well. Conservative, but well. Going flex fuel and Haltech-controlled EBC in Spring. We haven't been driving it, though. Battery probably dead again. I took it to MATG and beat the **** out of it and it didn't skip a beat, but it's pretty much just been parked since then. I'll probably put some coolant in it this weekend and put it up for the winter.
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Old 10-14-2013, 03:11 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
These guys will be better for helping you with MS than i will. I've read some things, but these guys have done it. I run a Haltech on both of the fun cars right now. Will cut my teeth on megasquirt with the 93.

Go ahead and shoot me an email @ celicahalftrac at gmalez dot kom if you want, and i can try to answer things anyways.

We're doing good, though she wants to get on the road again already. :P MSM is still running well. Conservative, but well. Going flex fuel and Haltech-controlled EBC in Spring. We haven't been driving it, though. Battery probably dead again. I took it to MATG and beat the **** out of it and it didn't skip a beat, but it's pretty much just been parked since then. I'll probably put some coolant in it this weekend and put it up for the winter.
Good to here.
Winter? What is that? I have heard of others that have this "winter".
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Old 10-14-2013, 03:22 PM   #29
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Here or there? (Or is it their? I always forget)
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Old 10-14-2013, 03:41 PM   #30
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Or hear I supose.
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Old 10-14-2013, 07:59 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by williams805 View Post
Is it really the mods job around here to try and flame the new guy?
Just to be clear, you mention wanting to run up to 20psi through a stock ECU, with no mention of running bandaids. Your question is literally: "Will the stock ecu handle that [20psi] alright?"

Then someone else points out the 20psi-stock-ecu sounding nonsense, with no clarification.

Then I clear out another newb trying to derail your thread towards his own rebuild.

Then I ask you to clarify: "the stock ECU comment was a joke, yes?"

Then you respond with "Not joking on the ECU comment", with some other stuff, and no mention again of bandaids.

Then I respond with a straight forward fact that the stock ECU cannot handle any boost.

And I'm flaming?

That seems a wee bit off to me. I'm the last mod that will give you any trouble, I do more spoon feeding than anyone here.

A little clarity in the original post, and realizing the basis of your thread (dude wants to boost a stock ECU), clarity might be good next time. It's otherwise a very well thought out build, and I truly appreciate your grammar, punctuation, and membership.
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Old 10-14-2013, 08:40 PM   #32
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Okay, now I see how that could be ambiguous. I am sorry about that. Those questions I had shouldn't have been so close together.

I didn't mention my engine control device simply because I'm focused on the engine build for now. I will certainly be reading for weeks again and asking plenty of questions when I can finally afford an MS and some injectors. I just don't have an extra grand at this moment in time.

For the record: This engine will be used primarily in a street car with low boost.
My charger kit is CARB legal meaning it will have correct pulleys and engine management for driving around the streets of California.
For closed course only, I would like it to be stout enough to take everything the S/C has to offer. (with proper engine management, injectors, cooling system mods, ect.). Say ~280whp.
I think with the parts above, this engine should have plenty for that with left overs.

I ordered the oil pump and gasket set today. Engine **** coming soon!
I'm taking the crank and block to the machine shop tomorrow. I need to make sure the crank can be cleaned up before ordering bearings.
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Old 10-14-2013, 09:32 PM   #33
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I'm in the exact same boat as you. We will probably end up with an identicle short block a couple months from now. I will definitely be watching this thread closely. I'm in Oc. Maybe we can meet up some time and swap ideas around. If your interested, shoot me a pm.
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Old 10-15-2013, 10:30 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curly View Post
Just to be clear, you mention wanting to run up to 20psi through a stock ECU, with no mention of running bandaids. Your question is literally: "Will the stock ecu handle that [20psi] alright?"

Then someone else points out the 20psi-stock-ecu sounding nonsense, with no clarification.

Then I clear out another newb trying to derail your thread towards his own rebuild.

Then I ask you to clarify: "the stock ECU comment was a joke, yes?"

Then you respond with "Not joking on the ECU comment", with some other stuff, and no mention again of bandaids.

Then I respond with a straight forward fact that the stock ECU cannot handle any boost.

And I'm flaming?

That seems a wee bit off to me. I'm the last mod that will give you any trouble, I do more spoon feeding than anyone here.

A little clarity in the original post, and realizing the basis of your thread (dude wants to boost a stock ECU), clarity might be good next time. It's otherwise a very well thought out build, and I truly appreciate your grammar, punctuation, and membership.

I still don't understand how anyone got "I wanna run 20psi on a stock ECU" out of any of that... Especially when he did clarify pretty clearly at least 3 times afterwards (and before your post in which you asked what he was smoking) what he truly meant.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave
Are most people running 8.6:1 for under 20 psi? I can get those pistons in a smaller overbore. Will the stock ecu handle that alright?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave
Not joking on the ECU comment. I've never taken close to a full point of compression away from an engine and watched how a stock ecu handles it. I would think it could handle fueling it safely, but more importantly for me, will the fuel trims be off enough to turn on a check engine light? That is what I'm asking.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave
No, lol. Stock ECU will never see over 200.

I mean... maybe my brain operates on a different wavelength than most, but that pretty clearly shows him merely asking if the stock ECU will be ok with the compression drop from the pistons, which is a valid question considering he'll have to smog with band-aids and stock ECU.


But all anyone cared about was OMG HE SAID 20PSI AND STOCK ECU IN THE SAME POST!!!!!!!!111!!1one!!!!!!11!!



Plus, Dave and i are butt buddies, so naturally i'm incredibly offended. I'm so angry.



Hey Dave, since you don't have winters, you should definitely just buy my MSM. Seems way easier than messing with all this stuff. I still have the MAF, stock ECU, and some factory o2 sensors. Disconnect Haltech, connect stock ECU, track down stock injectors, achieve smog glory.
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Old 10-15-2013, 10:49 AM   #35
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Even rereading your quotes and having the additional context it seems to imply that he might be trying to run the built engine with significant boost using the stock ecu. He just was not clear at all with how he laid it out.
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Old 10-15-2013, 10:52 AM   #36
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Then i suppose i do operate on a different wavelength.
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Old 10-15-2013, 06:40 PM   #37
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Didn't you know your butt buddy's plan before he posted? That's a biased opinion Mr. Fox News.

This thread is exactly the reason CARB is stupid though. We're wasting more resources doing this swap thing than the few amount of emissions we'd be wasting if we kept it year long.

The stock ecu will easily handle the compression though, I'm sure many of us are worn down to those levels.
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Old 10-15-2013, 06:41 PM   #38
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Nah, didn't even know he had fucked up his motor. Ran pretty strong in early July when I drove it though.
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Old 10-16-2013, 05:00 PM   #39
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This is funny because I knew EXACTLY what he meant, but my frame of reference is different seeing as I'm also from Never-Never Land

I'll also be watching this thread closely as I have exactly the same concerns. I don't want to run N/A on 8.6 and have a dog on my hands that makes the factory ECU throw CEL's when I'm not running boosty-boost and megasquirty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
Also: Time for a PNP megasquirt. That way it's just an injector change and "unplug this, plug this in" every time you smog.

8.6:1 will be fine on stock ECU for when you need to smog. 8.6:1 will also be winsauce the rest of the time on Megasquirt when you can cram a bunch of timing on that bad boy.
This is pretty much exactly what I'm looking at, except I don't have the benefit of the magic sticker for the other 728 days of the year (thanks Kraftwerks ) I've been running bone stock for a year now at the factory 9.5 and I'd hate to give up anything at this point by running around on 8.6.

Srs question: Has anyone actually bothered to dyno a car on 8.6 without a turbo stuck in its butt? Honestly not trying to derail.
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Old 10-16-2013, 05:03 PM   #40
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Srs question: Has anyone actually bothered to dyno a car on 8.6 without a turbo stuck in its butt? Honestly not trying to derail.
Not exactly your question, but my VVT engine with 8.6:1 comp on the TSE basemap during break in felt like a complete monster compared to the NA8 it replaced.
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