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Old 08-09-2011, 05:15 PM   #61
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Looks like plenty of room... that is until the fire wall is put back. In for more information on attaching ppf to the transmission, the Honda tail shaft was not designed to carry load, so I am anxiously awaiting your solution. Over all a great build! One more thought, are you sure going to a 3" exhaust is a good idea on a na f20?
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Old 08-09-2011, 05:19 PM   #62
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The tail shaft will be very well braced, don't worry.
On the exhaust, yes, I am sure. See here: http://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/8393...s-70mm-single/
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Old 08-09-2011, 05:38 PM   #63
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Read it from when the guy doing all the testing finally tries a 70mm test pipe with a 70mm exhaust without an accidental restriction in place... From post no.151 on the 7th page onwards. The results from then on have been pretty significant for a lot of F20C owners.
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Old 08-12-2011, 02:49 PM   #64
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Weighed my wheel and tyre combo today. Well, not the 185s that'll be on it, but a 195 with scrubbed tread, so probably a similar weight tyre. Total weight for the wheel and tyre,without wheel nuts, was 12.1kg, or 26.5lbs for you guys over the pond. Does anyone have any data on wheel and tyre weights I can compare that to to gauge how light (or otherwise!) this is? I'd especially appreciate info from the racers on this forum...pretty please!
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Old 08-12-2011, 03:58 PM   #65
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Why is Dr. Manhattan dressed like a smurf?
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Old 08-12-2011, 04:26 PM   #66
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I *love* how you are working to get the engine as far back as possible.

Lightened Miatas for which I have seen scaling results tend to show around a 53% front weight bias. So the car is 53/47. Not so hot.

Over the years I've modified a few nose heavy cars down into the 47-48% front weight range and boy do they love that as far as handling and braking goes.

Whereabouts do you think you'll wind up weight-wise in total and by percent? Sorry if this was already covered and I missed it.
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Old 08-12-2011, 04:49 PM   #67
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Quote:
why is dr. Manhattan dressed like a smurf?
gtfo.
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Old 08-12-2011, 05:04 PM   #68
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Quote:
Whereabouts do you think you'll wind up weight-wise in total and by percent? Sorry if this was already covered and I missed it.
Before I started this, the distribution was 52.5:47.5 F:R, without me in it, with 3/4 tank of fuel. Obviously not having me in the car when it was on the pressure gauges was silly, but I wasn't around at the time they did it, so unfortunately I don't have a proper weight-distribution-figure-with-me-in-it-before-build figure.

Aiming for 50:50. I really don't know what it'll end up as, but that's what we're going for. Locating the 9.5kg/21lb battery on the front crossmember in front of the engine is happening, unless the weight distribution turns out to be still front-heavy, which I doubt. Locating the battery here also saves on a long length of battery cable, which is heavy stuff.


As for final weight, I've thought long and hard about this, and I still have no idea. Some say the F20 drivetrain is exactly the same weight as the BP drivetrain, some say it's 20kg/44lbs heavier. The car will have no aircon or power steering, 25kg/55lbs taken out in doors/radio/tow hooks/stuff, pretty light wheel/tyre combo, seats that as a pair weigh 15kg/33lbs less than standard, lighter-than-inertia-reel harnesses, 5kg/11lbs lighter than standard battery, <5kg lighter exhaust, and by the time it's done, smaller savings all over the place. BUT, it'll be gaining a half cage and substantial X type door braces, and a substantial amount of fabbed drivetrain stiffening and bracing, which will surely add a lot. So I don't know. 950kg/2100lbs wet? Less? Dunno.



Wheel+tyre weight info still wanted pretty please guys. Ie anyone weighed 8" 6ULs and 225 RS3s? I'd just love to know how they compare weight-wise.

Last edited by owenwilliams; 08-12-2011 at 05:08 PM. Reason: Converted all kg measurements into lbs, for the Americans reading. This should definitely earn me a gold star for effort
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Old 08-12-2011, 05:39 PM   #69
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15x9 + RS3 is like 34lb i think? Heavy tire but awesome.
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Old 08-12-2011, 06:28 PM   #70
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Thanks very much. And thank **** there's at least one slight objective bonus to running 185 section/ghey section tyres.
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Old 08-12-2011, 07:02 PM   #71
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My car with me in it, full tank, and a hard top weighs 2420, that's with 205 50 15's and 13 pound 15x7 wheels.
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Old 08-12-2011, 07:33 PM   #72
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Interesting info hingston. Is that with the turbo/intercooler etc? Any more details on other significant weight-related things you have on your car? Eg factory/aftermarket braces, cage, seats, radio, gutted doors, air-con ?
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Old 08-12-2011, 08:11 PM   #73
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All relevant to your build, the 2420 is pre-turbo. I bet my build added 30# to my cars weight.
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Old 08-14-2011, 05:27 PM   #74
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Not sure if anyone has noticed, but all I've actually purchased for the car so far, not including labour, have been an engine and 'box and ECU etc. Well, that changed five minutes ago. Photos of fancy Stack gauges and a hilariously undersized muffler will appear in a couple of days
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Old 08-14-2011, 05:51 PM   #75
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Followed the link from the 3" discussion on nutz. Really keen to see how this build turns out. kind of confused by parts of it (narrow tyres with lots more power). also a bit off topic, but are you an American, or did you yank it up for the miata turbo audience? just wondering! )
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Old 08-14-2011, 06:04 PM   #76
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I'm English, haha. I just like the more abusive nature of this forum... :P And as fantastic as Nutz is, I think the knowledge base on here is slightly higher, especially when it comes to the more technical side of things.
Re the tyres - I'm aware that I'm being a bit unusual. Bear in mind it's not a track car though - I'm not after lap times. I want the car to be my ideal B road car, which to me, means making it not-very-grippy. And I've always liked cars with more power than grip.
I don't think traction will be an issue in the dry, because the F20C is not exactly a (relatively) sudden-wall-of-midrange-torque engine like a similarly powered turbo build would be in comparison. So I think it should be very controllable. And Yoko AD08s are reasonably sticky anyway
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Old 08-14-2011, 08:31 PM   #77
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Guess so. With a sensible ride height, softer suspension and narrowish tyres, the car should be nice and nimble whilst not being harsh or crashy.

To be honest my car isn't much fun on B roads anymore. Everything I do to make it better at the track makes it worse on the road, which is a shame. I'm at the tipping point where I need to decide the purpose of the car. One part of me (maybe 30%) wants to raise the suspension, fit softer springs, sound deadening, a nice stereo and red leather. The other part needs to strip the car completely, add splitters, a spoiler, 9 inch wheels, fat rubber and stiffer ARB / Sway bars.

How long until magnetorheological dampers become a sensibly priced option in the aftermarket world? Seems to have worked wonders for cars like the MP4-12C.
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Old 08-15-2011, 03:54 AM   #78
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I suppose that depends whether you can afford to run two cars or not. I certainly can't. This being a MX5/Miata forum and not a Porsche forum, most people here are in the same boat. Consequently, almost everybody's road-registered car on here is a compromise. My car will be a compromise too - for example, I do a lot of motorway miles. The car should ride a lot better than it did before, but it's going to be horrifically loud. :/
The best any of us can do is have a clear idea of the one area where we want the car to work best. For me, it's on a B road (the B660 to be precise!) where essentially the car won't be compromised at all because everything has been designed to make it 'work' in those conditions.

If I was you, I'd go all out with the track car build. Sod the road. A noisy and uncomfortable race car is 'an event' to drive on the road anyway, which is kinda fun in itself!
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Old 08-15-2011, 01:43 PM   #79
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You know you're a car geek when...


...you get excited about weighing a bit of carpet.



This is the carpet and under-carpet felt from my R Limited. Just the piece under the seats and over the transmission tunnel, not the bit behind the seats. I was surprised at the weight of it:



Around 3.8kg/8.4lbs.

Secondly, in the unlikely event that any of you have ever wondered what is inside the stock 'resonator'... well, now you know:

Attached Thumbnails
Just Another F20C build... &lt;Preview&gt;-eb2y2.jpg   Just Another F20C build... &lt;Preview&gt;-nmftm.jpg   Just Another F20C build... &lt;Preview&gt;-ln00o.jpg  
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Old 08-16-2011, 11:31 AM   #80
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What's inside the larger can under the boot?

Yes I'm sad enough to be interested :P
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