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Old 08-04-2014, 07:54 PM   #61
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Have you datalogged the braking gees before/after adding ABS?

--Ian
Not since I got changed it most recently. I should have datalogged saturday because there was a lot of great braking zones. But I was too lazy to do it for a random local. But before I fixed it I was still seeing the same as I was getting before swapping to abs, like 1.1-1.2g.
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Old 09-12-2014, 01:44 AM   #62
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Well, Laguna trashed another set of brakes:




Those are Wilwood "B" compound pads, one step down from the highest temp range they make. They were brand new going into the weekend, the rotors had one track day on them previously. Tapered pad wear, the pads are chunking into pieces, and the rotors are all grooved up. Time for a TSE 11.75" kit, I think.

Especially since, when I took it apart, the Goodwin bracket looked like this:




--Ian
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Old 09-12-2014, 04:02 AM   #63
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Jeepers Ian, you really put the hurt on those things.

Remind me real quick... Goodwin 11" 2 piece rotors and TSE 2" duct kit routex to NB foglivht openings, correct? I'm wondering if you might be a prime candidate for the Singular 2.5" or 3" duct set.
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Old 09-12-2014, 08:02 AM   #64
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I think he's a prime candidate for using something better than wilwood pads. Looks like the helicoil came out of the bracket.
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Old 09-12-2014, 12:36 PM   #65
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Oh yeah, 11.75 for sure. But I'm thinking larger ducts might help as well.

How do your hubs/bearings look in the front?
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Old 09-12-2014, 01:23 PM   #66
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Oh yeah, 11.75 for sure. But I'm thinking larger ducts might help as well.

How do your hubs/bearings look in the front?
Yep the 11.75 is the way to go. I have the track speed kit. try a higher quality pad too. I run the PFC 01 pads and the PFC rotors. ive had the same rotors for the last 3 years and maybe next year it will be time to change them. a Quick reminder i have 500hp and live next to road atlanta. I can hear them testing for the petit. my brakes get put through hell weekly.
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Old 09-12-2014, 02:37 PM   #67
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Pads are supposed to look like that, leading edge wears more. Flip them around after each track day and you'll get better life out of them.
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Old 09-12-2014, 03:17 PM   #68
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Pads are supposed to look like that, leading edge wears more. Flip them around after each track day and you'll get better life out of them.
i'm going to need to disagree with you there. if your leading edge has wear like that, the caliper is either flexing or you have allot of drag in the system.
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Old 09-12-2014, 04:10 PM   #69
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Currently the brakes on the car are 11" Wilwood rotors using Goodwin hats and Dynalite calipers, plus the new FM powerlite rears on factory sport rotors. I'm using Wilwood "B" compound up front, "E" in the rear. The pads are chunking, they clearly got massively overheated. I have TSE 2" brake ducting running to the NB factory fog light holes.

I've considered the larger ducting, but I'm really not sure there's room to route the larger hoses on the driver's side. The AC is gone, but there's intercooler hoses, radiator hoses, and power steering hoses all competing for that space.

Visually and audibly the hubs/bearings appear to be OK, I haven't disassembled them.

The helicoil is coming out of the Goodwin bracket, and it's also stripping out the aluminum thread that the helicoil was installed in. This happened once before with a Goodwin bracket, I put it down to not being careful enough with the torque on the bolts, but this is the replacement bracket and I have been religious about using the torque wrench on it. Neither FM nor TSE uses helicoils in their aluminum brackets, simply threading the bolt straight into the aluminum.

I chatted with Savington yesterday, and a TSE 11.75" kit is in the works. Alas, my Koseis won't fit over it, so I'll have to buy another set of 6ULs, what a pity.

Andrew recommended DTC-60 pads, so I'll probably try those.

As for the pad taper, I'm confused. That's usually a sign of a flexing caliper, but the Dynalites aren't supposed to be particularly flexible. It's possible I was fading the pads and just putting the extra effort required down to the effects of the 929 1" master cylinder (first time I've run that on track), and that the extra force was flexing the Wilwoods. Alternately, it's also theoretically possible that my Dynalites are more flexible than they're supposed to be -- they are over 10 years old, and the brakes audibly creak if you push hard on the pedal while stopped.

Would flexing in the brackets cause pad taper?

--Ian
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Old 09-12-2014, 04:14 PM   #70
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I know on larger than 2 piston calipers that the piston diameter tends to get smaller in the direction of rotation to prevent the pads from tapering like this and that 2 piston calipers normally dont because the pads are short and stiff enough for it to not matter.

Also FM claims to us the dynapro over the dynalite because the dynapro is stiffer. I have no opinion, just worth noting.
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Old 09-12-2014, 04:16 PM   #71
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As for the pad taper, I'm confused. That's usually a sign of a flexing caliper, but the Dynalites aren't supposed to be particularly flexible. It's possible I was fading the pads and just putting the extra effort required down to the effects of the 929 1" master cylinder (first time I've run that on track), and that the extra force was flexing the Wilwoods. Alternately, it's also theoretically possible that my Dynalites are more flexible than they're supposed to be -- they are over 10 years old, and the brakes audibly creak if you push hard on the pedal while stopped.

Would flexing in the brackets cause pad taper?

--Ian
The Dynalites are inherently flexy. they have a 3 piece design (most race calipers are 2 piece or monoblock) and are the cheapest 4pot caliper that wilwood makes. they were originally designed as a rear caliper for late model circle track cars. when i press down hard on the brake pedal i can hear the calipers flexing, (engine off, no heat, at rest) i'm personally saving my pennies because Stoptech released a competitor to it. it's 4.5X the cost but it's going to be worth it.

Also for our cars that run the dynalights i run a PFC pad. the dynalight being as widely used as it is, Super high end pads for them are crazy cheap. Go to an IMSA race and everyone is using PFC or pagid.they are dead nuts reliable and solve a lot of issues, It's simple to pony up and try out the nicer pads for a difference of 10 bucks.
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Old 09-12-2014, 05:37 PM   #72
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Stoptech released a competitor to it. it's 4.5X the cost but it's going to be worth it.
"4.5x the cost" is not a competitor. That's like calling the S-Class a Camry competitor.
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Old 09-12-2014, 05:38 PM   #73
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If it bolts directly in and uses the same pads you could all it an upgrade.
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Old 09-12-2014, 06:14 PM   #74
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Yeah, 4.5x the cost would be about $600 per caliper -- I can buy a lot of pads & rotors for that much!

--Ian
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Old 09-12-2014, 07:02 PM   #75
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Yeah, 4.5x the cost would be about $600 per caliper -- I can buy a lot of pads & rotors for that much!

--Ian
you're absolutely right. but i'm a brake guy. i can never just the usual "yea it's ok and it works." i want the best. the stoptech will be a bridge bolted 2 piece caliper that will be substantially stiffer. as most people know a caliper is only as good as how stiff it is and how light it is.
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Old 09-12-2014, 07:18 PM   #76
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you're absolutely right. but i'm a brake guy. i can never just the usual "yea it's ok and it works." i want the best. the stoptech will be a bridge bolted 2 piece caliper that will be substantially stiffer. as most people know a caliper is only as good as how stiff it is and how light it is.
So why not Porsche monoblocs?

--Ian
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Old 09-15-2014, 09:46 AM   #77
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So why not Porsche monoblocs?

--Ian
BEcause they have the wrong Position diameter, minimum rotor diameter, the pads are engineered for a 13' rotor not 11.75", they are a flexy oem caliper thatwouldcostatonbutdoesn'tmeantheyaregood.

If you want to troll... why don't you ask why i don't use a nascar caliper?


at least those fit under a 15" wheel. FYI one of those calipers cost $5k each.
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Old 09-15-2014, 12:25 PM   #78
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BEcause they have the wrong Position diameter, minimum rotor diameter, the pads are engineered for a 13' rotor not 11.75", they are a flexy oem caliper thatwouldcostatonbutdoesn'tmeantheyaregood.
Not a troll, it was a real question. I know Audi guys used to build brackets to use Boxster calipers under 15s to replace the "UFO" brakes on UrS4s -- word at the time was that they were stiff (due to then-new monobloc construction), had good pad availability, and were relatively inexpensive due to being a mass-production OEM part rather than a small volume race caliper.

--Ian
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Old 09-15-2014, 02:48 PM   #79
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Not a troll, it was a real question. I know Audi guys used to build brackets to use Boxster calipers under 15s to replace the "UFO" brakes on UrS4s -- word at the time was that they were stiff (due to then-new monobloc construction), had good pad availability, and were relatively inexpensive due to being a mass-production OEM part rather than a small volume race caliper.

--Ian
well my apologies,

When picking out calipers you got to match the calipers piston sizes. too large of a caliper piston front and too small of a rear caliper piston. You'll never be able to get the braking balance without a dual master cylinder setup.

secondly instead of thinking what's better a "Mass produced item or a low volume" think of what it's engineered for. is it engineered to be cheap and go on 100,000 cars, or is it engineered for racing.

Lets compare the porsche caliper to the willwood. the Porsche caliper is engineered to last 100k miles and live with mud, salt, rain. that means it has dust caps, and those like to melt at trac temperatures. when making those calipers they didn't take track driving into any consideration. what it needs to do is be ceap, say brembo, and have allot of pistons.

the willwood is also a Budget built caliper. being the least expensive 4 piston caliper in wilwoods lineup. but it was also built for racing. it has square O-rings to reduce drag, no dust caps, takes a readily available race pad. it's good at what it does. being a cheap race caliper.

With my level of experience i would take the wilwood for our applications, over a porsche caliper. if you see how much pads cost for a boxster compared to the willwoods you would agree with me lol.


My lsx powered car is a constant evolution. although the willwoods work well they aren't the greatest, and i want to upgrade to a 2 piece bridge bolt design.. i have a friend that engineers brake systems for PFC. he had a good quote. "you have a car with more horsepower than a C6R and the same brakes that a JR formula car uses.. your nutz"
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Old 03-17-2015, 10:24 AM   #80
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This is a bump of an old thread, but I used this guide to help me with wiring my ABS harness and making my ABS retrofit on a 2000 work. Ian was nice enough to send me a spare cluster pin to get my ABS light working.

I got the car running finally last weekend and tested the ABS. Probably need to do a few more bleed cycles, but I'm thrilled and wanted to say thanks for the wiring diagrams.
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