Notices
Build Threads Building a motor? Post the progress here.

Ryan's build thread - Clean and Mean

Old Nov 12, 2017 | 08:39 PM
  #621  
Ryan_G's Avatar
Thread Starter
Elite Member
iTrader: (8)
 
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,568
Total Cats: 217
From: Tampa, Florida
Default

I did something today.

Ryan's build thread - Clean and Mean-mvimg_20171112_184544.jpg

I will be tapping the pan this week hopefully. I also need to acquire some adapters for the oil pressure sensor for my new oil pressure gauge. The 1/8 NPT won't thread into the T off the block which I believe is 1/8 BPT.
Old Nov 12, 2017 | 09:38 PM
  #622  
TonyMontana's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 196
Total Cats: 77
From: Tampa
Default

Originally Posted by Ryan_G
I did something today.

Attachment 218584

I will be tapping the pan this week hopefully. I also need to acquire some adapters for the oil pressure sensor for my new oil pressure gauge. The 1/8 NPT won't thread into the T off the block which I believe is 1/8 BPT.
Hey your timing belt is loose
Old Nov 12, 2017 | 10:02 PM
  #623  
Ryan_G's Avatar
Thread Starter
Elite Member
iTrader: (8)
 
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,568
Total Cats: 217
From: Tampa, Florida
Default

Originally Posted by TonyMontana
Hey your timing belt is loose
My timing belt pulley and tensioner pulley are also missing. The crank sensor spacing needs to be redone as well. Sue me.
Old Nov 12, 2017 | 10:03 PM
  #624  
TonyMontana's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 196
Total Cats: 77
From: Tampa
Default

Originally Posted by Ryan_G
My timing belt pulley and tensioner pulley are also missing. The crank sensor spacing needs to be redone as well. Sue me.
Fail
Old Nov 14, 2017 | 03:53 AM
  #625  
Mobius's Avatar
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,469
Total Cats: 365
From: Portland, Oregon
Default

Ban
Old Nov 14, 2017 | 06:42 PM
  #626  
sonofthehill's Avatar
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 3,199
Total Cats: 591
From: SF Bay Area, CA
Default



Oh wait, who we banning, Tony or Ryan? Not that it matters, I just wanted on the ban dwagon.
Old Nov 14, 2017 | 06:50 PM
  #627  
aidandj's Avatar
SADFab Destructive Testing Engineer
iTrader: (5)
 
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 18,643
Total Cats: 1,870
From: Beaverton, USA
Default

y not both?
Old Nov 14, 2017 | 06:56 PM
  #628  
TonyMontana's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 196
Total Cats: 77
From: Tampa
Default

Old Nov 15, 2017 | 01:06 PM
  #629  
m2cupcar's Avatar
Elite Member
iTrader: (5)
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,486
Total Cats: 372
From: Atlanta
Default

What's the turbo test result?
Old Nov 15, 2017 | 04:18 PM
  #630  
Ryan_G's Avatar
Thread Starter
Elite Member
iTrader: (8)
 
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,568
Total Cats: 217
From: Tampa, Florida
Default

Originally Posted by m2cupcar
What's the turbo test result?
I was going to wait until I had the turbo back in my position but I'll just update now. I am pasting in the report I have received thus far.

Here’s a summary, and attached are some photos which I’ll explain further below:

· Initial visual inspection, during your visit, did not indicate any functional or mechanical issue.

· Initial ‘air-test’ seal testing indicated properly installed and functioning seal rings. No air loss was noted, and the unit behaved exactly as designed.

· During the disassembly of the turbo to live-test the unit in the VSR, I noted damage to the turbine wheel inducer and exducer, which I’ll explain below.

The damage to the turbine is indicative of a turbo that has been operated with the CHRA and turbine housing interface seated improperly. As you can see from the photos, this was not the case ‘recently, as the witness marks along the shoulder of the bearing housing are uniform in 360 degrees:

This leads me to believe that the ‘off-center’ running of the unit happened some time ago, and it simply ‘wore the wheel down’ until the housings were squared up, and then it ran without excess wheel clearance. This is a real surprise, because that level of damage to the wheel should have been instant and catastrophic in nature.

The damage to the turbine wheel is catastrophic and not repairable, due to the Gamma Ti alloy, but, even if it were an Inconel turbine, we would not recommend re-use or repair.

The evidence of that off-center operation is found in the turbine housing, as the contact between the wheel and housing took place at only about 180 degrees of the bore and radius:


Just to clarify, I did completely clean the housing prior to the above photos, as it did have a fairly normal layer of carbon-fouling, and I did chuck this into our lathe to confirm that the bore was indeed perfectly circular and not warped or off-center in any way; the bearing housing register ‘step’ and the bore are concentric, and I checked the radius in several positions.

Now, what I did not find was any evidence of seal structure failure or damage. The turbine-end seal area was very, very dry, with no sign of oil loss, and, although the compressor-end area was oily, the seal rings were in new condition, and both the seal bore, and the two ring grooves, were in perfect order as well. I suspect that oil loss is due to an external issue, which is what I’ve suspected from the outset.

Now, that leaves us with the original symptom/complaint unfounded with regard to the turbo, but in doing the inspection, we’ve uncovered a much more serious, immediate issue.

I am, frankly, surprised that the turbine wheel didn’t explode the moment it made contact with the housing, as the GammaTi is very brittle at low temperatures, so the only thing I can say is that you probably got lucky that it held up this long.

I do not think that the damage to the turbine wheel is in any way creating the oil loss issue, but it certainly would have resulted in reduced performance, and possibly some very odd noises when it first happened.

Solutions:
Okay, so all is not lost, although it’s not looking too good. The turbine wheel will need to be replaced, and the seal structure renewed, then the unit overhauled and re-VSR tested and imbalance-corrected. We have not yet experienced an EFR7163 turbine failure that could be repaired with a new turbine shaft/wheel, so we’ve never requested it from BWTS as a loose part, so I’m in the middle of that process now. “If” they release it to us, and I have no reason to believe that they will not, it will be far less expensive than replacing either the CHRA or the Super Core, so I would suggest we sit tight to see what pricing and lead time will be for that item.
So obviously I was aware of this damage as I mentioned it earlier in the thread. It was caused on track when the housing bolts backed out and the turbo almost came apart. This is why I have safety wired inconel bolts in there now. Southeast Power Systems ended up giving me a very good deal on the repair which will also include replacing the entire seal structure for good measure. There was a delay on receiving the turbine wheel due to a backorder on the EFR7163 but they are supposed to get the part in during the last week of November. I will provide and update when that happens.
Old Nov 15, 2017 | 04:23 PM
  #631  
m2cupcar's Avatar
Elite Member
iTrader: (5)
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,486
Total Cats: 372
From: Atlanta
Default

Nothing new. No surprises. Check it off the list and proceed as planned. I guess that's good. As good as it could be.
Old Nov 15, 2017 | 04:34 PM
  #632  
sixshooter's Avatar
Moderator
iTrader: (12)
 
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 22,204
Total Cats: 3,560
From: Tampa, Florida
Default

Originally Posted by m2cupcar
What's the turbo test result?
Ryan is not the father.
Old Nov 16, 2017 | 08:04 AM
  #633  
m2cupcar's Avatar
Elite Member
iTrader: (5)
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,486
Total Cats: 372
From: Atlanta
Default

We'll see if that holds up in court. I suspect he'll be writing monthly checks for this turbo for many years.
Old Nov 16, 2017 | 02:37 PM
  #634  
psyber_0ptix's Avatar
Elite Member
iTrader: (4)
 
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,648
Total Cats: 544
From: Northern VA
Default

Crap.

Last edited by psyber_0ptix; Dec 27, 2017 at 07:54 AM.
Old Dec 26, 2017 | 12:26 PM
  #635  
Ryan_G's Avatar
Thread Starter
Elite Member
iTrader: (8)
 
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,568
Total Cats: 217
From: Tampa, Florida
Default

So, I have the car back together now and I am having an issue getting it to idle. I have added the ATI damper and 36-2 FM trigger wheel which required me to update the firmware on my rev built MS2extra. I checked with Reverant, who confirmed I should use the lattest generic MS2extra firmware available from DIYautotune. A lot of setting do not carry over and I would appreciate some help from more experienced tuners to figure out why the car wants to immediately die with no throttle. I have attached my current tune and 2 logs of startups. My current theory is that the IAC valve appears to not be working correctly.

Will not idle.msq

2017-12-26_11.43.20.msl

2017-12-26_11.54.00.msl
Old Dec 26, 2017 | 10:46 PM
  #636  
sixshooter's Avatar
Moderator
iTrader: (12)
 
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 22,204
Total Cats: 3,560
From: Tampa, Florida
Default

Somebody help that poor man!




Old Dec 26, 2017 | 11:12 PM
  #637  
18psi's Avatar
VladiTuned
iTrader: (76)
 
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 35,821
Total Cats: 3,482
Default

I'll fix his ish as soon as I get a sec here
Old Dec 27, 2017 | 10:40 AM
  #638  
sixshooter's Avatar
Moderator
iTrader: (12)
 
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 22,204
Total Cats: 3,560
From: Tampa, Florida
Default

Muchas gracias me compadre. We're trying to get his stuff working so we can do a dang track day eventually.
Old Dec 27, 2017 | 01:20 PM
  #639  
sonofthehill's Avatar
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 3,199
Total Cats: 591
From: SF Bay Area, CA
Default

Not sure what idle valve you are using but my stock NB valve frequency is set to 480Hz.
Old Dec 27, 2017 | 01:21 PM
  #640  
18psi's Avatar
VladiTuned
iTrader: (76)
 
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 35,821
Total Cats: 3,482
Default

I'm trying to figure that out right now. lol his is at 31

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:49 PM.