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Old 03-18-2010, 06:27 PM   #41
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Great posts by mgeoffriau, and Sparetire.

Gov't is supposed to PROTECT rights, not "provide" them, or "enforce" rights.

The problem with giving gov't power, is it is ABUSED by the megalomaniacs.

The "liberals" don't trust the individual to help those in need, and say gov't must do it by force. They believe that the most morally upright members of society will rise to power and set everyone else straight. The irony is that it is the SCUMMIEST individuals who want to wield power. Everything they do is "for our own good", when in reality they line their and their buddies' pockets.

Last edited by JasonC SBB; 03-18-2010 at 07:01 PM.
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Old 03-18-2010, 06:33 PM   #42
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I dont know which ridiculous posts to respond to.


Here is a summary of what I've just read:
  • The government wants me to be single and immoral
  • I can opt out of food the same way I can opt out of healthcare
  • Out of context politician's quote refutes the Constitution
  • You can't update scientific theories based on new data because someone will say you're a flip flopper
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Old 03-18-2010, 06:40 PM   #43
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I dont know which ridiculous posts to respond to.


[*]You can't update scientific theories based on new data because someone will say you're a flip flopper[/LIST]
Update is fine. I hate people who will sit there and never change their veiws for the sake of ideological purity. But jumping the gun and screaming to high heaven with incomplete information does not suddenly become OK if you change the wording. And its not new information, its the same damn stuff, just with a different spin. Data from 10 years ago does not change. 30 years ago people were proposing putting giant black tarps over the ice caps to prevent global cooling.

So use stupid campaign slogans like flip flop all you want, its doesnt make it rediculus to laugh at people who dont know ****. And frankly I hated that damned slogan when it came out because only a Karl Rove ******* souless political operation could actually manage to convince people that a coke sniffing rich kid in the National Guard is more credible than a guy who took fire in Vietnam.

And frankly you are responding to one little humor statement out of what, 10 paragraphs that I posted?

**** it. You win. No point.
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Old 03-18-2010, 06:50 PM   #44
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And frankly you are responding to one little humor statement out of what, 10 paragraphs that I posted?

**** it. You win. No point.
No, you got my point... and I apologize for coming across as a dick, but it's a little frustrating to be a single voice on a pretty politically one-sided forum.

I can't singlehandedly respond to every argument and post and reference. I don't have the time or resources. And it wouldn't matter much if I did. So I get flippant and annoyed.

I'm gonna go do something else.
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Old 03-18-2010, 06:54 PM   #45
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No, you got my point... and I apologize for coming across as a dick, but it's a little frustrating to be a single voice on a pretty politically one-sided forum.

I can't singlehandedly respond to every argument and post and reference. I don't have the time or resources. And it wouldn't matter much if I did. So I get flippant and annoyed.

I'm gonna go do something else.
I'm completely honest when I say that I understand your frustration there. I comment on a local left-wing weekly paper's website, and I'm essentially the only right-wing/libertarian voice there. Even if it doesn't turn into an all out dogpile, it's still hard to simply address every argument that gets tossed at you from all sides. And then you're accused of "ignoring the tough arguments you couldn't answer."
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Old 03-18-2010, 06:54 PM   #46
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Ditto. I dont mean to get pissed about it, but damn politics pisses me off. I iwsh I could be a big fan of one party or the other, my life would be easier that way.
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Old 03-18-2010, 07:08 PM   #47
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well, lets get rid of govt and they will be no parties!
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Old 03-18-2010, 07:11 PM   #48
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well, lets get rid of govt and they will be no parties!
Anarchy in the USA. I am game.
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Old 03-18-2010, 07:11 PM   #49
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well, lets get rid of govt and they will be no parties!
but parties have chicks and liquor.


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Anarchy in the USA. I am game.

gun owners for anarchy?
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Old 03-18-2010, 07:12 PM   #50
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well, lets get rid of govt and they will be no parties!
Beastie Boys disapprove of this message.

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Old 03-18-2010, 07:14 PM   #51
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gun owners for anarchy?
Don't worry you can come chill at my house and I will protect you.
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Old 03-18-2010, 07:25 PM   #52
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ha
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Old 03-18-2010, 07:28 PM   #53
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Hey shouldn't food also be an "inalienable" human right? We should have GOVERNMENT FOOD then, right?
If health care were as cheap as food, nobody would be talking about making it controlled by gov't, right?
MAYBE THE REAL ISSUE IS THE COST. The "reform" proposals WILL NOT TAKE CARE OF THE COSTS IF THE REAL CAUSES OF THE HIGH COSTS ARE NOT ANALYZED.

Answer these. Why is the free market brilliant at giving us better clothes, soy products, and turbos, despite profits, but supposedly fails at health care?

Why is pet health care and insurance so inexpensive and high quality, even though it's all private and for-profit?

Why was US Health Care so good and inexpensive in the 1960s, even though it was private? What made costs spiral out of control??


If governemnt took over health care, it would have the same SHITTY quality as public education, right?

Many answers here, by a guy who is FOR Universal Health Care:

How American Health Care Killed My Father - Magazine - The Atlantic


The solution here is to move the tax break from the company that buys health care, TO THE INDIVIDUAL.
I would agree with everything about public education. public education can be and is good and that is not just in well to do areas.

the differences is in private schools they do not have to follow the same "federal guidelines." For example if someone is failing or not following the "contract" they can be removed from the school with out any formal explanation. The school does not have to provide for the students education after that point. They fall under the same rules as private business. That explains why they can have such high grades. In private schools teachers do not even have to be certified. Also parents are usually more involved as they actually see their school payments vs. the general public that just has it taken out of their taxes. Private schools also tend to get the cream of the crop in academics and sports from the public school system as they are not bound by district lines. They ceartinaly are not going to be recruiting the F student in the school systems alternative education campus.
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Old 03-18-2010, 07:35 PM   #54
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Y8's

I'm an equal opportunity hater. Liberal or Conservative doesn't matter. Both sides suck. Neither side sees the problems coming but both claim to know how to fix them. (and it's usually with our money)

The complexity of addressing the simplest of issues in our nation is staggeringly. The morality issues of government and its place and duty to the citizenry is an equally difficult problem.
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Old 03-18-2010, 07:39 PM   #55
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Old 03-18-2010, 07:52 PM   #56
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The vast majority of urban outdoorsmen choose to opt out of the conventional personal responsibility that is necessary to provide shelter for themselves. And I support their right to live that way.

The problem with the higher expense of medical care has only one root cause - trial lawyers. They are the reason that both medical care and medications require huge sums of money to purchase compared to their relative expense to create. The reason this has not and will not be remedied is because the vast majority of politicians ARE lawyers and the National Bar Association has THE most powerful lobby in Washington DC. So the politicians that are inclined to increase the size and scope of government anyway use this fabricated crisis as an excuse to conduct a massive power grab at the expense of personal freedom and liberty. They understand that they are only chasing the symptom and not the cause, but they aren't interested in solving the problem. That isn't their aim. They want control of more money because that gives them more political favor. They peddle influence. That is what politicians do. A politician that controls no spending is a useless politician. The more they can control, the more they want to control. That is why we need to reduce the amount of money collected and controlled by Congress. We don't need anything from them but protection from foreign attack. Everything else is superfluous. SELF-reliance is an American value.

Men are created equal. What you do after that is your business.
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Old 03-18-2010, 07:59 PM   #57
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The vast majority of urban outdoorsmen choose to opt out of the conventional personal responsibility that is necessary to provide shelter for themselves. And I support their right to live that way.

The problem with the higher expense of medical care has only one root cause - trial lawyers. They are the reason that both medical care and medications require huge sums of money to purchase compared to their relative expense to create. The reason this has not and will not be remedied is because the vast majority of politicians ARE lawyers and the National Bar Association has THE most powerful lobby in Washington DC. So the politicians that are inclined to increase the size and scope of government anyway use this fabricated crisis as an excuse to conduct a massive power grab at the expense of personal freedom and liberty. They understand that they are only chasing the symptom and not the cause, but they aren't interested in solving the problem. That isn't their aim. They want control of more money because that gives them more political favor. They peddle influence. That is what politicians do. A politician that controls no spending is a useless politician. The more they can control, the more they want to control. That is why we need to reduce the amount of money collected and controlled by Congress. We don't need anything from them but protection from foreign attack. Everything else is superfluous. SELF-reliance is an American value.

Men are created equal. What you do after that is your business.
A-******-Men to that.
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Old 03-18-2010, 09:35 PM   #58
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The problem with the higher expense of medical care has only one root cause - trial lawyers.
That is ONE of them.

Aside: Obama's plan does not address it. His health secretary Sibelius, is an EX LOBBYIST for a TRIAL LAWYERS ASSOCIATION.

What are the other causes of overpriced health care?

It can be summarized in a sentence: the free market pressures to lower prices and improve quality have been crippled. For example, you want to buy tires, you call around and get quotes. The consumer then votes with his dollars. This is what creates pressure to lower prices and improve service. Consumers voting with their dollars. Tried getting quotes shopping for an MRI? Why not? Think.

This article goes into great detail, despite the writer being pro universal health care:

How American Health Care Killed My Father - Magazine - The Atlantic

Those wanting gov't health care are basing their opinion on false assumptions. The status quo enriches a small segment of society at everyone else's expense, and they will continue to profiteer with the proposed "reform".
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Old 03-19-2010, 12:40 AM   #59
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This liberal bullshit stresses me out. But to unwind I'm reloading my spend 223/308 cases.... with a beer reload at hand.

My baby... come try and take it lib f*cktards...

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Old 03-19-2010, 02:05 AM   #60
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This isn't where I Left my global warming..






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