The Gubment shi**ing on the Constitution....again - Page 5 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Current Events, News, Politics Keep the politics here.

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-19-2010, 03:23 PM   #81
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
fooger03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 4,132
Total Cats: 187
Default

Just an idea, knock it if you like...

Kill the current healthcare bill.
Initiate a new healthcare bill which does the following:
"To make it illegal to pursue financial reconciliation on the grounds of medical malpractice unless malicious intent can be proven before grand jury not later than 30 days after the malicious intent has been identified"

AND NOTHING MORE

Do this, and we will all watch the bottom drop out on healthcare costs.
fooger03 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2010, 03:28 PM   #82
Crumple Zone Tester
iTrader: (7)
 
mgeoffriau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Jackson, MS
Posts: 7,656
Total Cats: 447
Default

I can't agree with that...there should be the ability to sue for actual negligence or incompetence as well as malicious intent. The problem is when the injured parties are awarded massive settlements because judges and juries feel sorry for them and think that "someone" has to be held accountable, even when there's no clear evidence of negligence.
mgeoffriau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2010, 03:43 PM   #83
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
fooger03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 4,132
Total Cats: 187
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgeoffriau View Post
I can't agree with that...there should be the ability to sue for actual negligence or incompetence as well as malicious intent. The problem is when the injured parties are awarded massive settlements because judges and juries feel sorry for them and think that "someone" has to be held accountable, even when there's no clear evidence of negligence.
Great point, edited:

"To make it illegal to pursue financial reconciliation on the grounds of medical malpractice unless malicious intent or gross negligence can be proven before grand jury not later than 30 days after the malicious intent or gross negligence has been identified"

Now we can sue a doctor for mistakenly amputating the wrong limb, but we can't sue the doctor for not performing $30,000 in lab work to identify a ruptured spleen when general medical theory might strongly point to a an enlarged appendix given the symptoms the patient was experiencing - regardless of whether the actual problem was the spleen or the appendix.
fooger03 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2010, 04:11 PM   #84
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

I'd like to see "The Hill" vote on things like the National Flood Insurance Program, fund-05 for disaster funding, and ya know...stuff that keeps the nation moving which isn't sensational enough about TV, while Florida hurricane insurance faces bankruptcy again.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2010, 04:48 PM   #85
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,454
Total Cats: 80
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fooger03 View Post
Just an idea, knock it if you like...

Kill the current healthcare bill.
Initiate a new healthcare bill which does the following:
"To make it illegal to pursue financial reconciliation on the grounds of medical malpractice unless malicious intent can be proven before grand jury not later than 30 days after the malicious intent has been identified"

AND NOTHING MORE

Do this, and we will all watch the bottom drop out on healthcare costs.
Malpractice is ONE of the problems.

Here are the others:
How American Health Care Killed My Father - Magazine - The Atlantic
JasonC SBB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2010, 04:52 PM   #86
meatbag
iTrader: (50)
 
gospeed81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 7,357
Total Cats: 26
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
Malpractice is ONE of the problems.

Here are the others:
How American Health Care Killed My Father - Magazine - The Atlantic


I'm sorry....what was that again?
gospeed81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2010, 05:53 PM   #87
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
fooger03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 4,132
Total Cats: 187
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
while Florida hurricane insurance faces bankruptcy again.
Solution: Insurance companies go bankrupt, ppl dont get paid, GOVT STAY OUT, Insurance companies liquidate to pay ppl what they can. New insurance companies come in which PROPERLY EVALUATE THEIR DAMN RISK people pay a second mortgage payment on insurance, dont get insurance, or GTFO OF FLORIDA! Disaster happens again, insurance company has enough assets to fix the problem this time.

Fail: Government fixes the problem at the cost of the rest of the US. Insurance companies continue to calculate risk poorly because they're not financially liable in the end. People continue to live in (insert high risk location here) US borrows more money from another country to pay for insurance default. Problem occurrs again and again and again.....

Different topic:
If the government takes money from the people who make it, and gives that money to the people who dont, then what's the incentive to go to work in the morning? Why "earn" my healthcare by providing for the American economy if someone is willing to "give" it to me for free instead?
fooger03 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2010, 06:06 PM   #88
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,872
Total Cats: 1,790
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by y8s View Post
I'll agree with that. Unfortunately (and I'm gonna say this without research), every congress and president has probably done it in the history of the USA
werd
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2010, 07:06 PM   #89
Moderator
iTrader: (11)
 
sixshooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 15,669
Total Cats: 1,561
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
...stuff that keeps the nation moving which isn't sensational enough about TV, while Florida hurricane insurance faces bankruptcy again.
A huge portion of the "Stimulus" money (more than 50%) that was allotted to Florida went no further than the State of Florida's "rainy day emergency fund" and didn't get spent anywhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fooger03 View Post
If the government takes money from the people who make it, and gives that money to the people who dont, then what's the incentive to go to work in the morning? Why "earn" my healthcare by providing for the American economy if someone is willing to "give" it to me for free instead?
Werd
sixshooter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2010, 09:32 PM   #90
y8s
2 Props,3 Dildos,& 1 Cat
iTrader: (8)
 
y8s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fake Virginia
Posts: 19,038
Total Cats: 407
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fooger03 View Post
If the government takes money from the people who make it, and gives that money to the people who dont, then what's the incentive to go to work in the morning? Why "earn" my healthcare by providing for the American economy if someone is willing to "give" it to me for free instead?
psychologists have learned that people are more highly motivated over the long term by knowing that their work benefits society than they are by the promise of financial reward.
y8s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2010, 10:55 PM   #91
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Floriduh
Posts: 882
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by y8s View Post
psychologists have learned that people are more highly motivated over the long term by knowing that their work benefits society than they are by the promise of financial reward.
WTF. I doubt the former USSR will agree with that statement.
soflarick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2010, 11:17 PM   #92
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,669
Total Cats: 36
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by y8s View Post
psychologists have learned that people are more highly motivated over the long term by knowing that their work benefits society than they are by the promise of financial reward.
I can contribute a bit to that. I am looking for work in a field (non-profit, non-government, disaster releif or medical/healthcare service) that will certanly pay me much less and far lower benefits than my old job working in the hospitality industry. If I can make enough to retire and have a budget track car I will be fine. At ths point I really just dont give a **** about making money beyond those goals. Hooray for me right? I am just so enlightened. ( I jest, I'm not)

I dont have a kid, a wife, a mortgage, or any other big responsibilities. If I had a family, I would do what it took to turn as big a buck as I can so my kid can go to college and hopefully not bollox it up like I did and so that my wife can do whatever she wants. My contribution to society then is taking care of my family and producing succesfull happy people. And that takes money. So if I can make more dough slinging oil futures, suing people, driving a truck, programming something, counting dollars, welding, or whatever, then I will do it. And if something doesnt pay, screw it. I can volunteer to get that fix.

I think overall that finding is dead-on, but its also situational.
Sparetire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2010, 11:19 PM   #93
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,669
Total Cats: 36
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by soflarick View Post
WTF. I doubt the former USSR will agree with that statement.
To a large extent, but then too look at some of the top notch minds that came out of the USSR. They ahd people just as ready to die for thier side as we did. If communism actually worked economically, I think that statement would be true like 98% of the time there.
Sparetire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2010, 12:12 AM   #94
y8s
2 Props,3 Dildos,& 1 Cat
iTrader: (8)
 
y8s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fake Virginia
Posts: 19,038
Total Cats: 407
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by soflarick View Post
WTF. I doubt the former USSR will agree with that statement.
Well, it assumes that you make a salary that is adequate to live on--ie enough that you dont need more.

But dont take my word for it:


Amazon.com: Drive: The Surprising Truth About What Motivates Us (9781594488849): Daniel H. Pink: Books

People are also more motivated by challenge and mastery of a given subject. That's why people do shitty jobs for money and do hobbies for free. What's the difference between being a mechanic and a car enthusiast? both work on cars, but one does it for free after working a full day...

The book is interesting.
y8s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2010, 12:22 AM   #95
Crumple Zone Tester
iTrader: (7)
 
mgeoffriau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Jackson, MS
Posts: 7,656
Total Cats: 447
Default

There's a massive difference between freely choosing a less profitable job because you personally enjoy the challenge, or think it's important, or find it fulfilling, and being told how, when, where, and for what wage you will do your job by the government, for no reason other than it "benefits society".

I suspect at the top of the list of job motivation is the sense of self-direction and freedom. It's why I work in an independent bookstore for half of what I could make as a cubicle bitch.
mgeoffriau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2010, 07:49 AM   #96
mkturbo.com
iTrader: (24)
 
shuiend's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Charleston SC
Posts: 13,776
Total Cats: 1,106
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by y8s View Post
psychologists have learned that people are more highly motivated over the long term by knowing that their work benefits society than they are by the promise of financial reward.

Quote:
Originally Posted by y8s View Post
Well, it assumes that you make a salary that is adequate to live on--ie enough that you dont need more.
See there lies the whole problem with your argument. You have an assumption that can not be met. "ie enough that you don't need more" is a relative statement. What is enough for me is very different then what is enough for you. While you may be happy living on ramen noodles and driving a 25 year old tercel and living in a crack house, which is "ie enough that you don't need more", I do not.

I will finish up my response later in the day when I get back from selling my hardtop. I have so much more to say about this.
shuiend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2010, 11:10 AM   #97
Moderator
iTrader: (11)
 
sixshooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 15,669
Total Cats: 1,561
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by y8s View Post
psychologists have learned that people are more highly motivated over the long term by knowing that their work benefits society than they are by the promise of financial reward.
Not when the financial reward is necessary to achieve lower level needs. People are most highly motivated to meet the needs toward the bottom of the hierarchy. After those are met, then people can worry about the etherial "betterment of society." Someone who is hungry could give two stones about society. Someone who has provided for their family can then contemplate "what if's."
Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs:




Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparetire View Post
To a large extent, but then too look at some of the top notch minds that came out of the USSR. They ahd people just as ready to die for thier side as we did.
And they had people just as ready to kill for their side as we did. This is one of the more famous of many psychological studies that shows people perfectly willing to harm others because they were instructed to do so. Milgram experiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In this one people willingly electrocuted a puppy (yes it was really electrocuted) just because an authority figure instructed them to do so. It is a spin-off or the Milgram experiment.
Charles Sheridan | brianpuccio.net

And this one is a very famous study about human nature:
Stanford prison experiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Researchers have also learned that people will harm society just because they have been instructed to do so by authority figures. Banality of Evil Herman



Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparetire View Post
If communism actually worked economically, I think that statement would be true like 98% of the time there.
And it didn't work because all motivation to acheive is removed. When working hard or being lazy produce the same outcomes, many people go on welfare people don't push themselves to perform. This is one of many failures of socialism and communism. Socialism and communism are systems for the "haves" to control the "have nots" and keep them from rising out of the social level of their birth (you are either a powerful party member or you are a prole). Capitalism invites everyone to "have" that has the drive and focus to achieve. There is not a finite amount of wealth in the world and for one to have it means another goes without. That is a fallacy. Wealth can be created by creating something of value whether it is an item, and idea, or a service. It is just fine with me that people have the freedom to choose to achieve or not to achieve.

Quote:
Originally Posted by y8s View Post
Well, it assumes that you make a salary that is adequate to live on--ie enough that you dont need more.
Good. I need a government bureaucrat telling me I don't need more money, more cars, a nicer house, or another life-saving surgery. And I don't have much of a salary, but a largely commission based paycheck because I am a happy capitalist. If you want a raise, go work harder and sell more. If you want to starve, go sit on your *** and wait for someone to hand you something. I like it that way.


Quote:
Originally Posted by y8s View Post
But dont take my word for it:


Amazon.com: Drive: The Surprising Truth About What Motivates Us (9781594488849): Daniel H. Pink: Books

People are also more motivated by challenge and mastery of a given subject. That's why people do shitty jobs for money and do hobbies for free. What's the difference between being a mechanic and a car enthusiast? both work on cars, but one does it for free after working a full day...

The book is interesting.
People are best motivated by the challenge and mastery of their chosen profession and the desire to achieve and succeed, and they will excel because they are passionate about their profession.

The book has received scathing reviews for it's selective use of facts, ignoring data that contradicts the opinions of the author, and being heavy on opinion and light on data. But being that "pop psychology" motivational/management books sell well in corporate circles it is no surprise that it was written and is selling. Read any of the hundreds of other titles written to sell to middle management types to make them better managers (but actually created to just make money selling books). I can recommend a few more if you want because I've been to too many management or sales training seminars and they all have a "hot new" stupid book.
sixshooter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2010, 12:02 PM   #98
y8s
2 Props,3 Dildos,& 1 Cat
iTrader: (8)
 
y8s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fake Virginia
Posts: 19,038
Total Cats: 407
Default

I said it's an interesting book. It is not gospel. I'm not a manager and don't generally have an interest in management books. This book was in our house and I was looking for insight into my own motivation. So I read it.

more bullet points:

* people want to master their chosen profession (yes, better way to put it)
* once people make enough money for at least the bottm 3 levels of Maslow's pyramid, they dont necessarily need more to be happy. or: more money wont increase your happiness.
* if you're always looking at the government as evil, any argument for them is going to be pretty irrelevant.

man this thread is all over the place.
y8s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2010, 12:05 PM   #99
mkturbo.com
iTrader: (24)
 
shuiend's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Charleston SC
Posts: 13,776
Total Cats: 1,106
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by y8s View Post
man this thread is all over the place.
It makes it more fun. In a few more hours I will have another response for you.
shuiend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2010, 12:12 PM   #100
y8s
2 Props,3 Dildos,& 1 Cat
iTrader: (8)
 
y8s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fake Virginia
Posts: 19,038
Total Cats: 407
Default

it's not fun for me anymore.
y8s is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New member here jsinnard Meet and Greet 8 03-17-2008 12:10 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:04 PM.