The hero warrior cop is ready to get roided up, rape, and drink and drive
 

http://www.salon.com/2013/07/07/%E2%...ut_of_control/

SWAT-like raids of piddly "offenses" like selling raw milk and $100 sports bets.

Seems to be a disturbing trend towards "militarization" of cops. The old days had neighborhood beat cops with the blue uniforms and leather shoes. These days they will often wear fatigues and combat boots.

And then there is the use of military surplus equipment via a DHS program:
The Pentagon Is Offering Free Military Hardware To Every Police Department In The US - Business Insider

And the strings attached, resulting in centralization of control over local PD's:
Militarizing the U.S. Police
Police Consolidation: The End of Local Law Enforcement?

All those people deserve their dogs to be shot in those raids.

Mindblown:

Boston Police Officer Arrested In Plymouth For Possession Of Military Grade Explosives « CBS Boston

Interesting. A civilian would have been charged with terrorism plotting and thrown in Guantanamo without bail.

I hope they're betting on dog fights.

Combat boots!?!? On noes!

Cops use "No More Hesitation" targets:
Is Your Local Police Department Using Pictures of Pregnant Women and Children for Target Practice? - Hit & Run : Reason.com

http://cloudfront-media.reason.com/m...ng?h=495&w=500

http://cloudfront-media.reason.com/m...ng?h=501&w=500

Based on your posts, I'm surprised you even 'risk' a network connection ... or are your using the public library?


-Zach

? Why should I be afraid? I'm not advocating violence against anyone.

at the risk of being flamed i will say this...
gangs like the ms13, the zetas, the mm and sur 13 carry more firepower than the police and became necessary to arm the cops to the same level or better than aforementioned dirtbags.
with that said, i disagree with the use of swat for low risk, bullcrap arrests.
i also disagree with the so called "no hesitation" targets. although most cops hesitate to shoot even when they are justified to do so.
ok...flame away...

I think most of those are valid points, as long as you are talking about people. They do not hesitate to shoot dogs (and wouldn't hesitate to shoot cats if cats felt any sort of loyalty or protective instinct toward their humans).

Your first point, of course, could lead to why decriminalizing and legalization of most drugs would be the best course of action. Do you know when police forces and Federal law enforcement first started acquiring firepower heavier than revolvers and shotguns? I would put money on it being about the same time bootleggers and the organized crime involved in alcohol smuggling during Prohibition started outgunning them. :idea:

See:

A) above regarding failures of drug prohibition
B) the rise of the suburbs and urban sprawl
C) the advent of the police cruiser as mobile command platform
D) your article regarding the recomissioning of military grade equipment that is left over from the wars in the Middle East

Yup, war on drugs' top lobbyists:

- police unions
- prison guard unions
- Big Pharma
- Big Alcohol
- Big Tobacco

Portugal de-criminalized drugs and usage went down, and costs plummeted.

The War on Drugs is more immoral than drug use:
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/...ug-use/274651/

i agree regarding the war on drugs. as a mater of fact i believe all victimless crime ought to be abolished. i have to say though...that even though the FBI of the prohibition days did in fact arm up to fight the mob, the majority of the country has pretty much always lagged behind the criminals in terms of firepower. its a change i have personally observed over the course of many years and several departments on the east coast.

police cruisers as command platforms...they dont really make cops more military, it just makes their life easier and allows them to respond quicker when called with better more accurate information.

lately there has been a movement to harass cops and make them look like idiots and post the videos on youtube and that is just shitty. a small amount of cops abuse their authority. most of them are good decent people who truly care about the community in which they work. the feds have been the ones overstepping their authority beginning with the creation of dhs. the bulk of the police militarization has occurred in the fed police community and "pushed" upon local departments....

let me end my comment with this...the cops need certain equipment and tools to do their job which is supposed to benefit us by making them more efficient...the m4 and level 4 armour is a necessity considering the firepower they are up against these days...the dhs and feds abuse authority and local cops catch the crap that rolls down hill because they wear a badge too...

oh and jason...i agree the lobby groups need to go away starting with police unions.

ftfy.

TSA searches valet parked car | www.WHEC.com

I don't work for TSA anymore, so I can be more critical...

My point about the cruisers was in reference to the picture Jason posted of the old "beat cop" vs the new Cop Commando. With the advent of technology + the increase in urban sprawl (and/or spread of suburbs), cops started using the cars more and more. Instead of "walking a beat" where they might see and interact with the same residents on a regular basis in a non-confrontational manner, cops started spending all of their time with each other in their cars.

Practically the only time a normal person interacts with a cop these days is in a confrontational manner - like getting pulled over for revenue generation or "harrassed" for being somewhere the cop has decided they shouldn't be. Because the cops spend all of their time with each other unless they are targeting a suspect, and civillians only interact with cops in a negative fashion, it reinforces the "us against them" mentality.

Cops start to view all civillians as "suspects until proven innocent" and civillians start to view all cops as "thugs until proven innocent."

I know some cities have reinstated walking a beat and some never stopped it. All of the above is speaking in generalities but should help clarify my point about cop cars being part of the transformation from "Officer Friendly" to "Operator Hardass."

I'm not sure I agree with this, but if it were the case, I would agree it's shitty. Most of the things I've seen - and, granted, I generally don't watch linked videos - have been catching cops going overboard in terms of violence or unreasonable harassment over petty traffic violations.

I think you and I are in general agreement here: the SWAT guys should have all of the high-end gear they might need BUT those SWAT guys should only be used for actual high-level situations.

what did you do for the TSA? and stupid question, what does "ftfy" mean? im not exactly familiar with all the internet shorthand

I was a contractor on their HR program. Worlds apart from the "law enforcement" side of things.

editing something and putting my name to it does not make it mine

so what you are saying is that its ok to purposefully do something to get pulled over, then while the cop is trying to do his job and investigate the traffic offense that he stopped you for; you are uncooperative, a smart ass and you film it and put it on youtube playing it out as you are being harassed by the cop...you are saying that is the right thing to do and everyone should do it because its standing up for your rights...is that what you are saying?

im all about standing up for your rights but doing the above is a dick move.

true...generally cops do not have regular interaction with the public but i will say that mainly it has to do with manpower and calls for service. if you have 7 guys on a shift taking care of a city with 50k citizens its hard to get a break and chit chat with regular folk because you are so busy going call to call and doing all the paperwork that goes with it.

being pulled over is not just revenue generation, it is a way to reduce traffic crashes. cops dont decide where people should be...im sure there are some who are idiots and say crap like that but generally they are just trying to discourage people from committing crimes. the "us against them" mentality is actually very complicated and its difficult to understand unless you have been on both sides of the fence. i can assure you, cops don't even think about regular folk, they are busy dealing with the "regulars" and doing paperwork.

not entirely true...again, you have to be on both sides of the fence to know what is going on.

i see what you are saying but i have to disagree. the patrol car is really just a mobile office, they are mediocre performers at best and in no way make a cop an "operator hardass". they house a computer, rescue tools, paperwork, case files... no bazookas or m60 machineguns, no thermal weapon sights...AND yes you are right that they can and do isolate the public from the cop which in the end is not good for either party.


im talking about those times when people go get pulled over on purpose and try to goat the cop into an argument or a fight while video taping, a dick move. and as for the few and i mean few cops that overstep their authority, shame on them! they work for us.

yes we are in complete agreement here.

the problem is, most of these people doing this are not purposefully doing something to get pulled over; that would assume a crime was committed. Most the videos on yt are people being stopped for open carrying, during checkpoints, or taking pictures of public buildings, where they record themselves being illegally detained/stopped/questioned/searched. If someone is doing something to get pulled over, then they can't complain as they've been arrested/detained. They might be injecting themselves into these situations, but i don't see anything wrong with that.

under the circumstances you outlined then yes youtube away! im talking about the guys that are baiting to cause problems.

the check point...that is a valid stop...

but hey...your comment taught me what ftfy means

it's only a valid stop if they stop you within the law and for the reasoning stated, there's a multitude of hurdles police need to jump through in order to establish a legal checkpoint; typically they are only legal to check sobriety and registration and even then still they need probable cause to detain you or search your car.

The statistics on DUI checkpoints are ridiculous, whereas greater than 80% of arrests/tickets are made for other reasons. Which means the police are questioning motorists, who have every right not to answer, to self-incriminate.

The videos of DUI stops you see online are typically people refusing to answer, and then getting arrested/hassled/searched because of it. Which is outside the law, as the police still need reasonable suspicion based on the facts that a crime is being committed. They use stops as fishing expeditions to put people in "harms" way and put them situations where without rear cause they'd have never been stopped/questioned in the first place.

Are you a cop?

Are you a lawyer?

Have you been arrested for dwi?

Have you ever arrested anyone for dwi?

Have you ever conducted a traffic checkpoint?

Probably not...

You know. .we are kinda arguing a mute point because as far as I can tell we both agree that illegal activities by police must be pointed out. But I think you are more ready to believe that most cops are bad and I'm just saying most are good.

most people are bad, cops are people, therefore most cops are bad.

govt is inherently evil, cops are the govt, therefore cops are inherently evil.


a cop's job is to write tickets and make money for the state, so why should I like cops? a give them a break? I've never had a good encounter with a cop, im pretty sure the majority of cop who interact with one will say the same.

okay...that is your point of view, i used to think that way too but not anymore.
i do think most people are stupid though...lol...

Another data point, me and a friend making time in the mountains, hauling ass down twisty roads. Not sliding, not beyond limits of vehicle or driver, but 15ish over the limit easy. We got pulled over twice that day. My buddy is driving. He is armed. Cop comes up, he lets them know as a courtesy. One cop said thanks, the other had him put the mag on the dash (no round chambered). Let of with a warning both times. Shot the shit with one cop about the charger he was using.

I can think of several cases where cops could have generated some revenue for the state/messed up my day and instead more or less told me to GTFO. Mostly because it was pretty clear no real harm was done and I was heading home anyway.

Most people who hate cops in general are either criminals or wannabe intellectuals who need some ideological purity. Its a lot easier to hold a more or less libertarian view point if you can paint cops and other state employees as generally 'bad'. Its a bit harder to talk about over-reaching power if you have to acknowledge that cops are indeed people who do a damned difficult job and usually do it pretty well with patience.

Does the gov in general overstep its bounds all the fricken time? Yes. Are cops generally 'bad'? (whatever the hell that means) Nope.

You know, I don't tend to "like" police either...and trust me, I've had my very fair share of dealing with them, citations and going to court. But In my multiple dozens of times being in those situations, I have concluded that 9/10 times, the way you act determines how you get treated. I'm not nearly saying to have to be a doormat, but having a stern but polite attitude and not being a dick has significantly reduced the chances of getting a ticket or even getting a "reduced" ticket on the spot (which is great because when in court, it usually gets reduced even further...many times to the point of being thrown out).

My point is, that if you have that "I know all of my tights and I know the law and I'll condescendingly tell you how to do your job" attitude, you're going to get fucked with...no ifs, ands or buts about it. To do so only makes you an ignorant shithead....ignorant on the fact of how you have not learned how to interact with the real world.

If you've never had a "good" encounter with a cop....you are clearly doing something wrong. What do you mean by "good encounter" anyway?

exactly.

That may actually be a great point that I have not really linked before: the number of police relative to the square mileage or population they are supposed to be serving and protecting. I say "may," because I would need to see some legitimate statistics to verify that assumption.

But, if you really did have fewer police per citizen or more square miles per police officer, that could be a contributing factor in the context you mention: there is no time to stop in to the local bakery to say hello or stop at the newstand to chat with the clerk.


I will grant you the first part of that comment. It sounds like someone convinced you of the latter part but you would have a HUGE hurdle to overcome to convince me of it. Your argument would have been stronger if you said something like...

"Traffic stops are only partially about revenue generation. Mostly, they are about (A) throwing the net out there for possible outstanding warrants or other crime (like catching a suspect or stumbling across a drug mule) and (B) putting forth a good public image for those that don't know any better that the cops are trying to reduce traffic crashes, even though there is minimal data to show a correllative or causal relationship between speeding tickets and traffic crashes."

You keep missing the point that my bullet point list above is meant to be taken together as a whole. :) "We went from Officer Friendly to Operator Hardass for a number of reasons, including the following..."

do you think this contributes to how they treat a normal, law-abiding citizen? day-in-and-day-out responding to calls of offenders, dealing with scum, hearing every excuse in the book...easier to treat them all equally, throw the book/authority at them and let the courts figure it out?

bwhahahahah

this is unrelated.

Let me help you with that...i happen to know of a city with a population of 43k residents (per 2010 census) with a police department of 89. out of those 89 only 28 patrolmen work the street, 4 of those 28 are k9. the city is broken down into 8 patrol zones and that leaves only 6 officers to cover 8 patrol zones. so on a typical day or night you have 6 patrolmen and one k9 on duty, 2 sergeants (supervisors), and one lieutenant who is not supposed to leave the office. during the day there are more than 43k people in the city. this info i am presenting is of a real police department.

i admit, i oversimplified my comment and your follow up comment with your points A and B in fact is the way it is. while there may or may not be any data to directly link tickets and traffic crashes, there is data that shows a direct correlation between lower speeds and traffic crashes. you can find it in the studies done after the 55 mph speed limit was set in place. with that said, the purpose of the speeding ticket is to try and get people to mind the speed limit which in turn reduces traffic crashes/fatalities/injuries. wont completely eliminate crashes but does in fact reduce them.

that clarifies it a little bit. i think alzymers is starting to kick in

nope...i dont know what you have been through that you dont like cops but there is a pretty big difference between the way regular joe gets treated vs the regulars. and you know...even the regulars get treaty fairly decent most of the time...its just business, law enforcement is not warm and fuzzy full of hugs and kisses. no one likes to be detained, no one likes to be told they got caught doing something wrong, no one likes to get a ticket. and all that just makes for a bad experience. its not the cop that is mean or hateful its the totality of the circumstances.

I am very humble to any officer that has ever pulled me over.

With that said, I've had an officer become outright pissed off at me when I told him that I hadn't been drinking at all. He called me a liar and told me to my face, in front of my girlfriend, that he knew I had indeed been drinking before rudely demanding I get out of the car for a field sobriety test.

What pissed him off more, though, was that during his field sobriety test he discovered for himself that I hadn't had a single drop of alcohol that night. He was pissed at me because I proved him wrong, and he was pissed that I wasn't the liar he wanted me to be.

The son-of-a-bitch still wrote me a traffic ticket for driving on the wrong side of the street. It didn't matter to him that the street was otherwise void of traffic, or that I was in the opposite lane to drive around a herd of drunk college students in the road, or that I was almost literally idling the car to get around those students. He only wanted to write me a ticket for drunk driving, and when he found out that he couldn't write me a DUI ticket, he decided to write some BS traffic ticket instead. He would have done a much better job as a public servant by writing tickets to those college students for either Jaywalking or public intoxication. Fucking asshole cop.

And how do those numbers compare with, for example, the 1950s or 1960s? It's the delta or change in those numbers that I am interested in, in terms of thinking about the change in perception of police.

I am sure that's what you were sold. ;)

In 1970, before the national 55-MPH speed limit was put in place, there were approximately 4.74 fatalities per 100 million vehicle miles travelled (fatality rate). The 55 MPH national limit was enacted in 1974 when the rate was 3.53. By 1994, the fatality rate had dropped all the way to 1.73.

Then, in 1995, Congress repealed that Federal law and some states raised their speed limit to 65 MPH. A funny thing happened: The fatality rate continued to drop in 1996, '97, '98... all the way to 1.44 in 2004.

There was a brief blip up to 1.46 in 2005, but the downward trend continued even as many, if not most, states increased their speed limits to 70 MPH.

http://www.saferoads.org/federal/200...s1899-2003.pdf
FARS Encyclopedia

[Edit: Not to mention the compliance rate in many states for actually following the 55 MPH limit was less than 30%!]

Now, I will grant you that I am talking about fatal accidents and not just fender benders. I don't know where to find good data on those.

Still, I reject the notion that traffic stops have anything to do with actually improving safety in all but rare incidences (like people blowing straight through stop signs or hauling ass through active school zones). They might be sold to the foot soldier that they are "improving safety" by spending a few hours working a speed trap, but that is not what they are primarily about.

do you love or hate your current job?

I tried, I tried, I tried to hold back but I can't help myself now.

You goad someone into doing something.

It's a moot point.

Old people get Alzheimer's disease.

I like it just fine. Im not a cop. I work with a private company.

And by the way this could be avoided if you don't get pulled over. The last for me was 2000. I stopped speeding and I haven't been pulled over since.

Driving the speed limit is like watching paint dry.

people aren't speeding to bait cops...

in fact, i've yet to see one "baiting" video where the person was simply pulled over.

Rise of the Warrior Cop - WSJ.com

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374386647

Here is another story about cops out of control. This shit makes pisses me off.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1374454473


I hate cops. I have yet to see/hear of any positive experiences from them. They're bullies on a power trip, high school jocks who deserve to get the asses kicked. If I'm at a social event, and someone comes out as a cop, I immediately leave the situation, and generally refuse to talk or interact with them. I will not go anywhere with someone I know is a cop, because I don't want anything to do with them.


Maybe a younger life of skateboarding and drug-doing made me like this, but I seriously doubt it. When you see Oxy and Opana sold buy the gallon freezer bag, and then see a cop pull over a speeder, or write a parking ticket, it really changes your perspective of their "job". I've seen cops modify evidence too, to add to the list of charges, or make themselves in the right.

I've met one or two decent ones over the years, the ones who don't take themselves too seriously. But since most prostitutes have STDs, I generally don't raw-dog hookers. Since most cops are dicks, I generally don't like them.


Fuck pigs.

notice the car that cuts off the bike rider...

For scrappy, since he only likes to read:

Rise of the Warrior Cop - WSJ.com

Good grief. Quote from the LEO at the door:
In other words, she should be thankful that they only busted in to her house, threatened her life, scared her half to death, and tossed her house. After all, they could have killed her and gotten away with it.

Also, she should be lucky she doesn't have a dog.

Thanks, but JasonC beat you to that one. :)

It would have been her fault for owning one and allowing police near it.

what happens when you refuse a vehicle search:

Paramedic filed lawsuit: http://newsok.com/medical-technician...rticle/3386953

Trooper says paramedic "danger to community": http://www.tulsaworld.com/article.as...0_oklaho620450

Trooper on Paid leave: http://statter911.com/2009/06/11/okl...ced-yesterday/