Minimum Wage - Should It Be Raised? How Far? - Page 3 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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View Poll Results: Should the Federal Minimum Wage be Raised?
No, those jobs are for teenagers and 2nd incomes. 58 67.44%
Yes, to about $10/Hr. 14 16.28%
Yes, to about $15/Hr. 11 12.79%
Yes, to $_____/Hr. 3 3.49%
Voters: 86. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-21-2014, 04:42 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Sparetire View Post
What about situations where we have more supply (labor) than demand (jobs)? Well, supply is incredibly cheap. And some does not get utilized.

Just one thing, you are talking about people. And joking aside, there are decent non-lazy human beings who don't have skills to set them above millions of others and while they are willing to work hard, their skills are common. So they get screwed. And it is not only within our power to mitigate that somewhat with a min wage, its also in our interest. That cash flows through the economy. And less desperate people usually means less crime, less cash incarcerating people, etc.
Fine. Aren't the people who don't have a job at all (because their level of productivity is less than the minimum wage) and are trying to subsist on welfare desperate too? Aren't they even more screwed than if they could at least earn some money while learning a skill or improving their productivity levels?
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Old 05-21-2014, 04:46 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by mgeoffriau View Post
I don't see why someone who can only provide labor worth $5 an hour should be legally barred from employment.
Same reason children should be barred from employment - to prevent them from being taken advantage of.
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Old 05-21-2014, 04:50 PM   #43
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So that they can sit home, collect an unemployment check or welfare while doing nothing, or worse, while we gave away a huge chunk of our check to pay for all of it.
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Old 05-21-2014, 04:54 PM   #44
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So that they can sit home, collect an unemployment check or welfare while doing nothing, or worse, while we gave away a huge chunk of our check to pay for all of it.
Can you define "a huge chunk" for me? Would that be 50%? 20%? 10%? How big do you think that chunk is? Serious question.
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Old 05-21-2014, 04:58 PM   #45
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I get $902 deducted. I dunno how much of that goes where, all I know is it doesn't go into my pocket

*edit:
just pulled up my paycheck, here are the "chunks"
Quote:
Fed Withholdng
Fed MED/EE
Fed OASDI/EE
CA Withholdng
CA OASDI/EE
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Old 05-21-2014, 05:06 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by mgeoffriau View Post
Fine. Aren't the people who don't have a job at all (because their level of productivity is less than the minimum wage) and are trying to subsist on welfare desperate too? Aren't they even more screwed than if they could at least earn some money while learning a skill or improving their productivity levels?
How many minimum wage jobs allow you to learn a skill? If they were on welfare they would have plenty of time to learn a skill. Working 60 hours a week for $5/hour they wouldn't.
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Old 05-21-2014, 05:07 PM   #47
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Welfare made up 7.6% of the Federal budget in 2013.

The real problem is why does half of the taxes paid to the government come from personal income tax and less than 10% come from corporate taxes? especially when corporate tax rates are 30+%?
Could it be that theyre all dodging their taxes through countless loopholes?

Apple was making tens of billions of dollars every year and not paying taxes. The ******* NFL is tax exempt.
The government cant balance the budget and you guys want to cut welfare spending. Meanwhile huge banks that contribute literally nothing, are figuring out ways to legally not pay the billions of dollars in taxes they owe.
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Old 05-21-2014, 05:14 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by mgeoffriau View Post
Fine. Aren't the people who don't have a job at all (because their level of productivity is less than the minimum wage) and are trying to subsist on welfare desperate too? Aren't they even more screwed than if they could at least earn some money while learning a skill or improving their productivity levels?
Well, people who could not get the 7.80 are no more screwed if we move it to 10, so no. They are no more or less screwed by a theoretical move to 10 bucks. They may well benefit actually. See below.

Those in between 7.80 and 10? Honest answer? Major companies right now are sitting on massive cash reserves while also issuing bonds because our genius Gov. has had its unholy way with the yield curve. Somone called it 'Artificial Cash Repatriation'. In other words and very bluntly, the vast majority of employers will pay the extra theoretical 2.20 an hour because its their cheapest option and they desperately want to do business here.*

And, the increased consumer spending of cash that was previously sitting on books doing very little (except maybe participate in what I consider a huge asset bubble in equities right now. Again, thanks Fed) will create as many jobs as are lost through employers who cut work force rather than pay the extra. Those are going to be smaller employers for the most part who BTW already cut down as much as they could because of the ACA nonsense. (Thanks Barak).

In short, we already have all the pain there, we may as well get some benefit at this point. Anyone who would cut major jobs due to a 2.20 increase already did it because of the ACA. Everyone else is actually sitting on a massive pile of liquidity. In fact, due to ***-backward nature of things right now, this could cause some companies to move liquidity to domestic accounts from accounts abroad.

*IF we got our insane tax law into shape it would make that even more true. Our official corp. tax rate is psychotic. I'd love to see a deal where that got lowered while min wage got increased. I really think everyone would win.
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Old 05-21-2014, 05:17 PM   #49
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I'm selfish. They will raise minimum wage and my income won't move. Essentially giving me a pay cut. I am currently a state employee being paid on a pay scale that was created in 2001. Raise my pay the percent you are forcing others to raise their employees.
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Old 05-21-2014, 05:17 PM   #50
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The ******* NFL is tax exempt.
No, it isn't.
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Old 05-21-2014, 05:18 PM   #51
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*off topic bs*
Attached Thumbnails
Minimum Wage - Should It Be Raised? How Far?-bowl.jpg  

Last edited by Full_Tilt_Boogie; 05-21-2014 at 05:54 PM.
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Old 05-21-2014, 05:20 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Full_Tilt_Boogie View Post
The NFL does not pay taxes.
The NFL is just a group of teams pooling their money together for a common goal. All of the money is coming from the respective teams who are taxed. We try to avoid double taxation. Any income generated from business activities by the NFL is taxed. Money it received from its member teams is not revenue in the true sense and is therefore treated like nontaxable money much like homeowner's associations.
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Old 05-21-2014, 05:25 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Full_Tilt_Boogie View Post
I take that back. The NFL pays taxes as a non-profit. Because when I think of non-profit organizations, I think of this:


look at all that non-profit-ness
You are an idiot.

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Originally Posted by Ryan_G View Post
The NFL is just a group of teams pooling their money together for a common goal. All of the money is coming from the respective teams who are taxed. We try to avoid double taxation. Any income generated from business activities by the NFL is taxed. Money it received from its member teams is not revenue in the true sense and is therefore treated like nontaxable money much like homeowner's associations.
You are not.
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Old 05-21-2014, 05:31 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Tekel View Post
I'm selfish. They will raise minimum wage and my income won't move. Essentially giving me a pay cut. I am currently a state employee being paid on a pay scale that was created in 2001. Raise my pay the percent you are forcing others to raise their employees.
No offense intended here. But most gov. employees have far less to gripe about in that regard than the rest of us. My current job being an exception, I have never gotten regular raises and that's on jobs ranging from minimum wage to about 40K a year. Enjoy them bennies too.

And we will probably get a inflation issue soonish anyway regardless of min wage. So your 'paycut' is coming no matter what. Same for me and everyone else.
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Old 05-21-2014, 05:33 PM   #55
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How many minimum wage jobs allow you to learn a skill? If they were on welfare they would have plenty of time to learn a skill. Working 60 hours a week for $5/hour they wouldn't.
"Skills" as in showing up on time, following directions, being responsible, and taking on more responsibility when it's given to you. I'm not talking about learning to write code or something. Those are the basic things that lead to more income.

Nearly 2/3rds of minimum wage workers receive a raise within their first year on the job.

http://www.epionline.org/studies/macpherson_06-2004.pdf
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Old 05-21-2014, 05:39 PM   #56
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Nearly 2/3rds of minimum wage workers receive a raise within their first year on the job.
Wow, that's an extremely interesting statistic (unironically).
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Old 05-21-2014, 05:48 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgeoffriau View Post
"Skills" as in showing up on time, following directions, being responsible, and taking on more responsibility when it's given to you. I'm not talking about learning to write code or something. Those are the basic things that lead to more income.
That's very dependent on who you work for. I have consistently been hired, seen my boss get fired, taken on many aspects of their roles and received no additional compensation and in one case ended up with a pay cut, though that was early-on in recession time so it sort of hit the fan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgeoffriau View Post
Nearly 2/3rds of minimum wage workers receive a raise within their first year on the job.

http://www.epionline.org/studies/macpherson_06-2004.pdf
Nice Org:

Charity Navigator Donor Advisory - Employment Policies Institute Foundation

https://www.factcheck.org/tag/employ...ies-institute/

Employment Policies Institute - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

2/3rds? Bullshit.
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Old 05-21-2014, 05:48 PM   #58
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Minimum wage in the state of Minnesota is 7.25, prior to that (less than 2 months ago) it was 5.25 unless your employer made more than 650? thousand a year. Then it was 6.15. That was unchanged since the early 2000s, too.

My friend works over 100 hours a week to pay for her apartment, food and schooling and is STILL in the hole (not counting student loans) and she makes a glorious 8.50. -_-
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Old 05-21-2014, 05:50 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Der_Idiot View Post
Minimum wage in the state of Minnesota is 7.25, prior to that (less than 2 months ago) it was 5.25 unless your employer made more than 650? thousand a year. Then it was 6.15. That was unchanged since the early 2000s, too.

My friend works over 100 hours a week to pay for her apartment, food and schooling and is STILL in the hole and she makes a glorious 8.50. -_-
how were they circumventing the federal minimum wage of $7.25 set on July 24th of 2009? Black magic?
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Old 05-21-2014, 05:53 PM   #60
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Alright. I'm wrong about the NFL. I was just repeating some **** as fact to prove a point. Maybe I should should be a talking head on cable news?
It's irrelevant to what I'm trying to say. The point is that people like us are playing by the rules and paying our taxes. The hyper wealthy and big firms are dodging tons of taxes they owe. Complaining about money wasted on people exploiting welfare is silly when there are the other huge problems.

These same companies do not want to pay their employees a higher wage, they don't want to pay for environmentally friendly practices. It's no surprise they're going to lobby hard to keep the real issues out of the public eye and keep everybody arguing about welfare and illegal immigration.
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