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Old 09-11-2012, 01:12 PM   #21
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that works for me.

but China still isn't a republic.
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Old 09-11-2012, 02:15 PM   #22
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I'd like to go back to the dark ages? If by that you mean to return to an earlier time in American history before many of the rights of American citizens had been stripped away by an all-consuming federal government, yes. To go back to a time before the government overstepped its bounds with an unconstitutional confiscatory tax policy, yes. To go back to a time when common men still feared and were suspicious of a powerful centralized government rather than counting it as their societal savior and longing to suckle its teat, yes. And to go back to a time when so few funds were controlled by the federal government and so plain were its duties that there were no favors for friends, companies, or wealthy individuals to buy or coerce, yes.

I also long for those dark times when men considered it an honor and a duty to serve their fellow men and their hard-won country as elder statesmen, and not as beggars seeking bribes (contributions) or as little kings lusting for power. I long for a time when the Senators and Congressmen were not paid as they were only to gather on rare occasion when it was very necessary.
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Old 09-11-2012, 03:10 PM   #23
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that works for me.

but China still isn't a republic.
The People’s Republic of China does not have a Monarch, Its leader is chosen by party officials. Party officials are typically appointed rather than democratically elected but it is a public party not owned by an individual ruling family or monarch. This is a Republic.

One thing I think they have embraced in China is western capitalism. They seem to have embraced it with even less scruples than we have.

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Old 09-11-2012, 03:22 PM   #24
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the socialist party has full control over everything, you cant do crap without their approval.
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Old 09-11-2012, 03:39 PM   #25
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I'd like to go back to the dark ages? If by that you mean to return to an earlier time in American history before many of the rights of American citizens had been stripped away by an all-consuming federal government, yes. To go back to a time before the government overstepped its bounds with an unconstitutional confiscatory tax policy, yes. To go back to a time when common men still feared and were suspicious of a powerful centralized government rather than counting it as their societal savior and longing to suckle its teat, yes. And to go back to a time when so few funds were controlled by the federal government and so plain were its duties that there were no favors for friends, companies, or wealthy individuals to buy or coerce, yes.

I also long for those dark times when men considered it an honor and a duty to serve their fellow men and their hard-won country as elder statesmen, and not as beggars seeking bribes (contributions) or as little kings lusting for power. I long for a time when the Senators and Congressmen were not paid as they were only to gather on rare occasion when it was very necessary.
Well it’s impossible to go back to the frontier days, we’ve already killed off and concentrated the natives and the land is all claimed up and altered likely forever unless we experience a civilization collapse and or mass die off of the human population.

We could eliminate allot of regulation and go back to industrial revolution days with no labor laws and disregard for the environment stuff I guess.

That is certainly not something I want to do. I don’t think those were better times at all. But I’m sure the oligarchs trying to buy the government would profit handsomely. Heck Sheldon Adelson is looking for a 2 billion dollar reduction in his taxes for the 100 million he is throwing at Romney.

Child Labor



Love Canal

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The trouble with democracy...-child%2520labor.jpg   The trouble with democracy...-love-canal.jpg  
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Old 09-11-2012, 03:59 PM   #26
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the socialist party has full control over everything, you cant do crap without their approval.
That is not contrary to the definition of republic.
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Old 09-11-2012, 04:55 PM   #27
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The reason child labor existed was because families needed the additional income.
Child labor was on the way out, due to improved productivity, when gov't made it illegal.

Re: the Environment. A system of Common Law (de-centralized power) is arguably better than Statute Law (a central authority) at protecting the environment. A central authority is easy to subvert - look at how all the lobbyists descend in one place, washington DC. In a system of Common Law, power would be far more de-centralized. Here is one book that makes that argument:

The Common Law and the Environment: Rethinking the Statutory Basis for Modern Environmental Law (The Political Economy Forum): Roger E. Meiners,Andrew P. Morriss: 9780847697090: Amazon.com: Books The Common Law and the Environment: Rethinking the Statutory Basis for Modern Environmental Law (The Political Economy Forum): Roger E. Meiners,Andrew P. Morriss: 9780847697090: Amazon.com: Books



And here's a PDF:
http://www.law.northwestern.edu/facu...Law_Butler.pdf

America til about the early 1800s had a system of mostly Common Law, and this was systematically dismantled and replaced with Statute Law. It was an early form of Corporatism - the pressure to move away from Common Law came from businessmen:

Here's a book about how Common Law was subverted into Statute Law. Check out the description in the reviews. Interestingly the author is a Marxist:

Amazon.com: The Transformation of American Law, 1780-1860 (Studies in Legal History) (9780674903715): Morton J. Horwitz: Books Amazon.com: The Transformation of American Law, 1780-1860 (Studies in Legal History) (9780674903715): Morton J. Horwitz: Books
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Old 09-13-2012, 01:34 PM   #28
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Old 09-13-2012, 03:52 PM   #29
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Child Labor


The free market always has a way:

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Old 09-14-2012, 07:52 AM   #30
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Here Here
is an actual book written by an Economist that goes over a large majority of the problems democracy has, and why people vote for stupid policies.
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Old 09-14-2012, 05:18 PM   #31
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Here is an actual book written by an Economist that goes over a large majority of the problems democracy has, and why people vote for stupid policies.
I haven’t read that book obviously but I do see serious issues with us transforming from the Liberal Democracy we are to something much less democratic.

The alternative I see happening there is where leaders of government entities are directly appointed by Industry, boards of directors of major corporations, and or the oligarchical controllers of the majority of the capital. All while they receive an ever growing proportion of the proceeds of the nation’s GDP while contributing nothing themselves other than there ownership of it.

The Citizens United case is very scary with the concepts of corporate personhood combined with the concept that money is speech in this respect.

I don’t think ending the Liberal Democratic form of government that was set up in the US will have a desirable effect at all.
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Old 09-14-2012, 05:24 PM   #32
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I havenít read that book obviously but I do see serious issues with us transforming from the Liberal Democracy we are to something much less democratic.

The alternative I see happening there is where leaders of government entities are directly appointed by Industry, boards of directors of major corporations, and or the oligarchical controllers of the majority of the capital. All while they receive an ever growing proportion of the proceeds of the nationís GDP while contributing nothing themselves other than there ownership of it.

The Citizens United case is very scary with the concepts of corporate personhood combined with the concept that money is speech in this respect.

I donít think ending the Liberal Democratic form of government that was set up in the US will have a desirable effect at all.
Have you ever heard of public choice theory of economics?

I honestly know you will disagree with a good amount of that book, but I would highly suggest picking it up and reading it. Its from an academic that teaches at a school that put out 2 Nobel Laureates in economics for public choice. So it is not just a shitty book written by someone along the lines of Anne Cunty Coulter.
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Old 09-14-2012, 06:28 PM   #33
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Don't hate. My book is the best.
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Old 09-14-2012, 06:57 PM   #34
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Oligarchies form by the force of gov't.
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Old 09-14-2012, 07:16 PM   #35
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Have you ever heard of public choice theory of economics?

I honestly know you will disagree with a good amount of that book, but I would highly suggest picking it up and reading it. Its from an academic that teaches at a school that put out 2 Nobel Laureates in economics for public choice. So it is not just a shitty book written by someone along the lines of Anne Cunty Coulter.
Looking at the reviews he has a big problem with voters making irrational decisions on how to vote. I find this interesting because it is of my own personal conclusions that the human species has a serious problem with being drawn to irrational belief systems rather than knowlage. Religion of any variety I can think of is Irrational. Mostly a religion is just an invention of man for the purpose of manipulating societal behavior. I donít think it is always a good thing. The Republican Party has very successfully used irrational religious beliefs to manipulate the way a good chunk of the people vote for the last several decades now. Even the democrats balked on trying to remove religion from politics.

Bob
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Old 09-14-2012, 07:26 PM   #36
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Oligarchies form by the force of gov't.
BS. coming out of the Dark Ages they formed with the lack of central government when the Rich land owners held all the economic playing cards. And the poor populous had no voice in the matter.

The world got better for everybody after the age of enlightenment when Liberalism came in along with logic and reason over religion and concepts like Liberal Democracy were Developed.

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Old 09-14-2012, 08:10 PM   #37
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Society came out of the Dark Ages due to the rise of Classical Liberalism, which is very similar to today's libertarianism. It was a revolt against the old order of class and privilege for the few.

Modern Liberalism is a hodgepodge of socialism and statism. Part of it came from Fabian Socialism and from Progressivism (which had elitist, racist roots).
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Old 09-14-2012, 11:16 PM   #38
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Don't hate. My book is the best.
Anne Coulter is a cunted ----, nothing she has ever written or said is worth reading or listening to. The only reason she is popular is the same as Palin, all of us guys just want to jizz on her ****.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bbundy View Post
Looking at the reviews he has a big problem with voters making irrational decisions on how to vote. I find this interesting because it is of my own personal conclusions that the human species has a serious problem with being drawn to irrational belief systems rather than knowlage. Religion of any variety I can think of is Irrational. Mostly a religion is just an invention of man for the purpose of manipulating societal behavior. I donít think it is always a good thing. The Republican Party has very successfully used irrational religious beliefs to manipulate the way a good chunk of the people vote for the last several decades now. Even the democrats balked on trying to remove religion from politics.

Bob
People are irrational about voting because becoming rational costs to much. Basically it comes down to is that the opportunity cost of becoming rational with voting is much higher then the benefit because of the law of large averages. If you are seriously interested in reading the book but don't want to spend the money shoot me a PM and I will mail you out my copy as long as you promise to send it back.
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Old 09-25-2012, 04:48 PM   #39
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The trouble with republicy:

Ľ Man Crushed by Steamroller On Orders of Chinese Officials Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!

Quote:
A villager in northern China attempting to resist a forced government relocation by remaining on his land was brutally crushed to death by a road flattening truck on the orders of a Chinese government official.
warning graphic images.
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