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DIY Turbo Discussion greddy on a 1.8? homebrew kit?

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Old 03-19-2013, 12:51 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by jimj64 View Post
If what you want is a nice quick street Miata that'll be fun to drive why spend money on things you don't need?
That's what I've done with my 1.6L. I pray each night that a 1.8L falls from the sky and kills me in my sleep.
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Old 03-19-2013, 12:53 PM   #22
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It's not necessarily about being cheap, I'm 48 years old and I know what I want out of my car. My Miata is a relatively mild 1.8, I could have spent more money and gotten a lot more power, I know I will be happy with roughly 250whp and took the money that I would have spent on more power and did brake and suspension work, believe me my Miata hasn't been cheap, but I wanted a quick, reliable, fun street car, not a track car, so my priorities were obviously different from someone building a track car. It's not always about spending more or spending less but about spending on what you want. If what you want is a built 1.8 with a big turbo, go for it. If what you want is a nice quick street Miata that'll be fun to drive why spend money on things you don't need?

I would love to pick up a pre obdII Miata (either a 1.6 or a 1.8 doesn't matter) and either put a JRSC M45 ( I know sacrilege..) or a small turbo on it and use it as a autoX car, it would be cheap, fun and reliable, not super fast but fun and reliable.

Jim
I'll probably agree with you when I'm that old.

We'll see

*edit: on the other hand: swapping in a vvt long block would achieve the same exact thing your 1.6+m45 would do, but be cheaper, more reliable, and just better all around.

So yeah. Fail

Last edited by 18psi; 03-19-2013 at 01:04 PM.
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Old 03-19-2013, 01:00 PM   #23
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I dont even want a built 1.8L. I want a stock 94-95 block with the same turbo setup I have on it.

this is what I should have done when I bought my 91 after wrecking the 93, and I hate myself for not doing it cause god forbid I would of had to buy a new exhaust manifold.
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Old 03-19-2013, 01:04 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
I dont even want a built 1.8L. I want a stock 94-95 block with the same turbo setup I have on it.

this is what I should have done when I bought my 91 after wrecking the 93, and I hate myself for not doing it cause god forbid I would of had to buy a new exhaust manifold.
Just out of curiosity, what's stopping you from doing it? You're obviously very passionate on the subject so why not do the swap yourself? I am legitimately asking, not being a smart ***, there must be some reason you haven't done it yourself.

Jim
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Old 03-19-2013, 01:05 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
I dont even want a built 1.8L. I want a stock 94-95 block with the same turbo setup I have on it.

this is what I should have done when I bought my 91 after wrecking the 93, and I hate myself for not doing it cause god forbid I would of had to buy a new exhaust manifold.
So being cheap to the point of retardation, might sometimes be less beneficial in the long run?


WHOWOULDATHUNKKKKKK!!!!!

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Old 03-19-2013, 01:06 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by jimj64 View Post
Just out of curiosity, what's stopping you from doing it? You're obviously very passionate on the subject so why not do the swap yourself? I am legitimately asking, not being a smart ***, there must be some reason you haven't done it yourself.

Jim
Nothing.

Well not really. More like laziness.
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Old 03-19-2013, 01:15 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
I'll probably agree with you when I'm that old.

We'll see

*edit: on the other hand: swapping in a vvt long block would achieve the same exact thing your 1.6+m45 would do, but be cheaper, more reliable, and just better all around.

So yeah. Fail
Except I have a JRSC M45 kit with a high boost pulley, DDM works cold air box, injectors and an XEDE sitting in my garage so it wouldn't cost me anything....can't bring myself to sell to it so I keep thinking I should put it to use. For what it's worth my bone stock '01 VVT engine dyno'd 108.5 hp on a dyno dynamics dyno. The M45, even on a 1.6 would hopefully be a little better...hopefully

Jim
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Old 03-19-2013, 01:19 PM   #28
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Since you aren't going to get a reliable turbo kit and everything for less than $3k (actually plus a 1.8 diff so more like 3.5k), an extra $500-1000 for a 1.8 swap isn't that outrageous. Hell you can probably save a chunk of change by buying your 1.8 diff and engine at the same time.

OP, for 1/6th the price of your total cost to turbo your 1.6, you can get a 1.8 that will be 6/1ths better. $3.5k for a decent 1.6 setup vs $4k for a decent 1.8 setup. It shouldn't even be a question.

I'm pretty sure the 949 track rental made more like 150whp bone stock (with standalone EMS and tuning).
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Old 03-19-2013, 01:20 PM   #29
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I should have added: "with the super simple and basic bolt ons" to that, which would result in more like 140whp, maybe more depending on a couple things. With the setup you just listed, you'd probably be maybe 10hp above that. Maybe.

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Old 03-19-2013, 01:37 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
So being cheap to the point of retardation, might sometimes be less beneficial in the long run?


WHOWOULDATHUNKKKKKK!!!!!

I looked at a few 94-95 cars, but chriscar bought the one I wanted out from under my nose

It was mainly due to impaitence, the miata marketplace here being way overpriced, and thinking I'd have to redo a whole bunch of work...but that really wouldn't have been the case, everything would have still swapped over, i would have just needed a new exhaust manifold.
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Old 03-19-2013, 01:38 PM   #31
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We typically advise based on our experience. We are what like 1% of the miata community? How many of the people that come on here and ask these questions actually execute their post?

ECU & Wideband. If you're still sticking with cars and not off doing something else in 6 months or so come back and ask the questions again really.
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Old 03-19-2013, 01:41 PM   #32
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You can get a BEGI-S system for the 1.6 for $2200, considering the early 1.8 is nothing more than than a 1.6 with increased bore spacing how is it so vastly superior? Sure the later 1.8's had better heads and intake manifolds but they will also be more expensive to buy used. The only real advantage to the 1.8 over the 1.6 is 200cc of displacement, is 200cc really that much better?

Jim
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Old 03-19-2013, 01:44 PM   #33
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yes it is. did I not prove that with the dyno I attached?

same turbo, same ECU, same exhaust, similar turbo manifold, yet the 1.8L makes 50 more rwtq throughout the powerband below 5K with 2 psi less boost.

It's hard to make a 1.6L spool well, and when it does, it can't even output any tq to matter.
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Old 03-19-2013, 01:45 PM   #34
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I love my 1.6, but i will be swapping it our for a 1.8 down the road. It's all about what you want out of the car. where's the love bros
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Old 03-19-2013, 01:45 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimj64 View Post
You can get a BEGI-S system for the 1.6 for $2200, considering the early 1.8 is nothing more than than a 1.6 with increased bore spacing how is it so vastly superior? Sure the later 1.8's had better heads and intake manifolds but they will also be more expensive to buy used. The only real advantage to the 1.8 over the 1.6 is 200cc of displacement, is 200cc really that much better?

Jim
200cc of displacement is a significant increase in displacement.
There is no replacement for displacement.

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Old 03-19-2013, 02:09 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimj64 View Post
The only real advantage to the 1.8 over the 1.6 is 200cc of displacement, is 200cc really that much better?

Jim
It's actually ~240cc, which is a ~15% bump in displacement.

By the time you purchase a quality manifold, a downpipe, a turbo, a full exhaust, good oil and water lines, an intercooler setup, injectors, a fuel pump, a standalone ECU, a wideband, a clutch, and Toyota/LS coils, you're going to be into the car for $3k if you're good at finding deals or $8k if you are fine with paying retail to get known good parts from a vendor that's done all the research for you already. The extra $600 to swap a 1.8 into the car is no longer a significant amount of money in the big picture, and it's important to get a 1.8 block and build around that, because two of the most expensive parts of the build (the manifold and the downpipe) are 1.6/1.8-specific parts.

There are so many people here who have turbo 1.6s who regret not doing the build on a 1.8. The 1.8s make significantly more low-end torque, they spool bigger turbos faster, and they make more top-end power.
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Old 03-19-2013, 02:12 PM   #37
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that.

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Old 03-19-2013, 02:14 PM   #38
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plus they dont have a limp donkey dick v-notch crank/alternator pulley.
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Old 03-19-2013, 02:18 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by rhysmate View Post
where's the love bros
the love is gone. This is no longer MT, it's now become the Torque Wasteland

I know that even after I'm done making double the power most people make, I'll still get ragged on because it could have been "that" much better with a 1.8. And I'll take it like a bitch because I know I can't fault them (even though I need the traction over low end).

The only way I can redeem myself is the hope of companies producing T3 EFR housings even then I'll probably just run my junkyard turbos, lol
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Old 03-19-2013, 02:19 PM   #40
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Sav, I don't disagree with what you've said but you're list of parts and comments apply to a high horsepower build. and for a high end build I completely agree.

what I've been saying is that if a mild build will satisfy, the costs to turbo are considerably less, and the relative cost of a 1.8 swap is higher.
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