Compound boost: EFR 7670 into Coldside FFS W/ H20/Meth into 10.5:1 VVT Built Engine - Page 5 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 07-17-2013, 05:06 PM   #81
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................what the **** did I just read?

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Old 07-17-2013, 06:31 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soviet View Post
my god, you are so much dumber than I thought.
enjoy your pile of ****.
???
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Old 07-17-2013, 06:42 PM   #83
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Your car will never make the numbers you want, especially at 9:1 afr. I made 190hp at 9-10:1 and leaned it out and advanced timing some and now I make 280-300 depending on boost. Running it rich will just end up building up huge amounts of carbon deposits.
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Old 07-17-2013, 06:47 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by nitrodann View Post
I intend to do this with a toyota SC14 and something big and cheap (T04 or something).

The sc14 will be mounted below the turbo, allowing intercooling of both, I also intend to spray before the blower.

SC14 also has a bypass for experimenting with it. Although I know an SC14 can do 400whp on the right setup on its own, so I dont see it becoming a restriction unless I went for the ultimate record.

Dann

... on what?

An LSx that made 400whp n/a?


Or are we talking about magical upside-down dynos again?
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Old 07-17-2013, 06:54 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by Der_Idiot View Post
Your car will never make the numbers you want, especially at 9:1 afr. I made 190hp at 9-10:1 and leaned it out and advanced timing some and now I make 280-300 depending on boost. Running it rich will just end up building up huge amounts of carbon deposits.
lol
but did your 190hp feel like THREE HUNDRED FIFTY HORSEPOWER
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Old 07-17-2013, 06:57 PM   #86
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this pictures is unrelated, i just wanted people to remember when Christian Bale freaked out on mic.
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Old 07-17-2013, 07:12 PM   #87
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Old 07-17-2013, 07:29 PM   #88
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[QUOTE=Savington;1032817]I think making serious power (500whp) when your final compressor stage is unintercooled is a pipe dream, no matter what's happening in between the turbo and the supercharger. QUOTE]

With that setup? Alcohol injected, gasoline should only be used for cleaning parts.
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Old 07-17-2013, 08:05 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SleeperMX-5 View Post
Correct. Thanks for posting that.
I was being facetious, dude. That sort of bullshit might fly on M.net, but if you throw out horsepower numbers here without legitimate dyno charts to back them up, you're not going to have a good day.
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Old 07-17-2013, 08:12 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
I was being facetious, dude. That sort of bullshit might fly on M.net, but if you throw out horsepower numbers here without legitimate dyno charts to back them up, you're not going to have a good day.
I haven't posted any HP numbers here. I said I might dyno it. Well see! I do think I'm gonna need to do something about the heat as you said. I don't think water method alone will cut it.
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Old 07-17-2013, 08:45 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
... on what?

An LSx that made 400whp n/a?


Or are we talking about magical upside-down dynos again?
A litre bike motor on alcohol.

Also except cars with tube frames where there is a lot of space to mount heat exchangers, are people really intercooling both stages separately? It occurs to me that sending very high heat into the cooler will only serve to raise its efficiency, and allow less total intercooler than running 2 smaller ones, one for each stage.

Dann
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Old 07-17-2013, 09:13 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrodann View Post
A litre bike motor on alcohol.

Also except cars with tube frames where there is a lot of space to mount heat exchangers, are people really intercooling both stages separately? It occurs to me that sending very high heat into the cooler will only serve to raise its efficiency, and allow less total intercooler than running 2 smaller ones, one for each stage.

Dann
Typically they run air/water between stages in cars. I believe the racing skyactiv-D is that way.
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Old 07-17-2013, 09:37 PM   #93
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I wonder why if that actively helps a lot inside the intercooler, or cools before it hits the intercooler.

Im just going off what I know about Delta T vs efficiency.

Dann
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Old 07-18-2013, 02:07 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thenuge26 View Post
With the complexity of his setup there is about a 0% chance that it will ever be optimized without dyno tuning. Pat is free to not give a **** of course, but we are also free to make fun of him for this fact.
True, it won't be optimized without a dyno. So what? I'm not trying to get every bit of power out of it. The turbo will flow 66 lb/min, I probably won't ask for more than 50. Nothing is set in stone.

After seeing how much interest there is in me putting it on a dyno, I might just have to! Cause I need to impress people on the internet with my dyno sheet, ya know.


On topic, I'm going to have to do some math to estimate the charge temps post-blower with varying levels of boost going into the blower. My big question is, will spraying enough water/meth into the blower keep temps down enough? I would like to think that with enough water, yes, but I got a feeling it's not gonna work as well as I need it to. I would guess I could spray enough water into the blower that it would knock temps down to 212*F more or less with water alone, with water/meth it could be lower. But I think it needs to be down to 120*F to make good power/good driveability with 93 Octane and my compression ratio.

How much boost was magna running with water/meth and no WI?

I feel pretty confident E85 + water injection would work. I just don't want to switch to E85 unless I absolutely have to.
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Old 07-18-2013, 02:10 PM   #95
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If I can't make it work with water/meth and 93, I could also drop the compounding and bypass the SC up top. But that would add a bit of complexity getting the control system working for a smooth transition between the two. But that would let me feed 100% intercooled boost to the motor up top. I don't want to do this unless I have to though.
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Old 07-18-2013, 02:40 PM   #96
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We don't want dyno's because we want to be impressed. We want hard data on how a setup like this performs. It is a relatively unexplored setup.
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Old 07-18-2013, 02:58 PM   #97
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The main point of WI is NOT to lower charge temp, it's to increase det resistance. It may lower them some, but again that's not the purpose of it.
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Old 07-18-2013, 03:08 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan_G View Post
We don't want dyno's because we want to be impressed. We want hard data on how a setup like this performs. It is a relatively unexplored setup.
I may dyno it to see what it makes. I'm hoping I can keep it compounded and not have to bypass the SC. If I can do that, it should be easier to tune the boost curve and have pretty good torque everywhere without a dip (if I have to bypass SC there will likely be a dip when it happens).
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Old 07-18-2013, 03:10 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thenuge26 View Post
The main point of WI is NOT to lower charge temp, it's to increase det resistance. It may lower them some, but again that's not the purpose of it.
Normally, yes. Spraying a ton of it into the blower would probably drop charge temps a good bit though since the air would be really hot and the SC should mix the water well with the charge. I plan to measure charge temps after turbo, after IC and after blower, so if I get all that setup, I'll be able to log the delta T out of the SC with the WI to see how well it's working.
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Old 07-18-2013, 03:35 PM   #100
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Time out.

Quote:
FWIW, it trapped 87mph in the 1/8 mile. Car wasn't running too great, but that's what I ran.

Is 87mph in the 1/8 mile special? My daily driver does that, and i'm pretty sure it's not making the 350whp claimed, and it's heavier than a Miata.
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