Ok guys this just hit me! When I needed a connector for a map sensor I bought it at a GM dealer. Since a Pontiac Vibe is a Toyota with a 1ZZFE engine then maybe a GM dealer could look up the connectors for the COP coils??? =) Someone hit up a dealer and ask for maybe a '03+ Vibe coil connector. Then ask for quantity discounts!

I have a good relationship with the parts counter at the chevy dealer, if you can tell me what chevy will work, I can.

The vibe was the only GM I believe with that body style. I don't think they brought it to the other "names". However, the chev guy should be able to order the vibe parts if necessary....

Might still be worth the investigation....

Dave,

Do the connectors on the wires look like this?
http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.c..._1957_45453022

(similar to injector harnesses)

ooo that's nice. might just need to shave off the mounting tabs

do you have dim's on those connectors?

shave off what mounting tabs? I have no idea if they're even remotely related. I need pictures of the harness side of the connector, not the coil side.

mounting tabs on the coil, it has 2 on top. the connector you pictured has one slot on top, one on bottom. that connector you pictured looks like it is the right design. just no way to know if it's sized and proportioned right.

Sure, dangle an attractive problem in front of the engineer and watch him work. :cool:

I think Lazzer's solution has merit. A flip-flop could be set on the rising edge of the CMP, and reset on the trailing edge of the second CKP thereafter. The output of this flip-flop would drive two pairs of gates, with an inverting buffer on the switch input to one pair. This would make the mod compatible with MS as well as stock ECUs and piggybacks.

However, I won't be the one building it unfortunately. When I epoxied my coils I only connected tach wires to two of them, so my engine will be running wasted-spark unless someone out there wishes to donate two coils to the project.

Doing some poking around this morning, I think while looking at the GM Parts sites....

Chevrolet Prizm - 2000->2002 might have the same coils in it.

This site lists the coils for the 2002-> 2006 vibe as the same part number (GT is different from the base), however it also implies that the prizm uses the same part number.

www.gmpartsdirect.com

My mom just got a new 2006 vibe. The next time I see it, I'll try to get some shots of the coils and also the connectors......

EDIT: Confirmed from another GM parts site -- these look the same too, plus the same part number:

http://parts.replacementgeneralparts...1&make_code=CV

Dave,

Oh, I like where this is going! That definitly looks to be the proper part, for sourcing a connector plug... who's got the GM hookup :p

Nope, sorry. Connectors alone are not for sale. Whole harness only, for the low cost of $700.

keying tabs are trivial. I'm just trying to find the right family. It appppppearrrrs to be a standard bosch connector. possibly made by amp/tyco but I can't find it on their site.

this: http://order.waytekwire.com/IMAGES/M...og/219_034.pdf or this: http://order.waytekwire.com/IMAGES/M...og/219_035.pdf work?


damn this looks the closest, however, dual row, not signal: http://order.waytekwire.com/IMAGES/M...og/219_037.pdf

no, i don't see those working.
matt's is the closest, and yeah knocking down the tabs is trivial. what are the odds it's the right size though

Damn. Probably because it's a sourced engine. I know they have all sorts of connectors for there own equipment. Sorry guy I thought I was on to something. So, if you replace your spark plugs on a Vibe or Prism don't break that connector it'll cost you $700 if you do. :gay:

http://catalog.tycoelectronics.com/T...^N~1^IDS~48035
orrrr
http://www.molex.com/cgi-bin/bv/mole...cehedffgdfmk.0

Maybe.


ben, can you tell me the dimensions of the connector at all? terminal width and spacing, if they're centered top to bottom. if there's any keying (I saw none) other than the latch on top...

To add to that, it looks like the pins are 4mm center to center. All measurements taken with tape measure, not caliper or micrometer :o
However, I have access to both tools, 30 minutes away from me. f you find somehthing that seems like it will work I will go take good measurements. The only key I recall is the 2 small raised ridges on top, one on either side of center. They will immediately disappear with a razor or dremel.
<edit> I was wrong about the keys. there are 3 on top, all convexities. top center key is wedge shaped. pointy end of triangle forward, less than 1mm tall towards rear. 5mm wide. designed for a release tab to grab. on either side of the wedge is a bump, each is 3mm from their respective end of the wedge, and 1mm wide, 2mm deep (front to back), 1mm tall

http://www.ilostmymind.com/upload/step2.jpg

http://catalog.tycoelectronics.com/T...&N=1&IDS=48035

Go here... Click

Product Drawings:
1 X 4 PLG ASY KEY A-C3 (PDF, English)

The actual part of that plug that inserts into the coil's connector will fit. I'm not sure about the clip though.

I have specs for the Toyota connector I'll post in a minute.

http://ecommas.tycoelectronics.com/c...D_184046_C.pdf

matt that looks right!

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/a...F1072Large.jpg
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/a...F1071Large.jpg
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/a...F1070Large.jpg
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/a...F1069Large.jpg

Looking at the coil the ID is 22mm x 8.5mm and pin spacing is 5mm

The connector Braineack and I are talking about has a plug OD of 20.4mm x 7.1mm and has 5mm pin spacing. In other words it fits electrically but I can't tell if the "retainment housing" will clip to the coil. Order a test sample. :bigtu:

FWIW, I spent a while night trying to find 11885 in realationship to anything.

What im afraid of is that's more like the connector on the CAS, which doesn't work, but looks like it would.

Awesome work guys. Keep it up. We are counting on you.

Very very close. As you can see on your pic at
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/a...F1069Large.jpg
the terminals are slightly offset towards the top of center. The drawing shows these terminals are centered. But the dimensions look good, other than that.

Boy i hope i don't get in trouble... but I had tyco ship me a sample of the 184046-1 plug... as a representative of my school :p.

It'll be to me early next week.

Only bad news is... if it works... they only sell them in 1k batches....

:doh:

if it works, we could probably get an appropriate quantity from a tyco distributor instead of from tyco directly. i think the terminals are 1-1.5mm to low (they are centered top-bottom, instead of offset towards the top). Perhaps they will still work.

also, I would assume they require terminal pins.

Well we know there are at least 10 people x 4 plugs here, so we need someone to buy the other 960. How much do they want for 1k of them?

If this turns out to make real power, all the Link turbo guys will probably want them.

We can try. None of them stock them... and min order on their sites is 1k also. Sounds like Tyco's min is 1k for everyone buying them.

you'll get in trouble with me. you should have ordered FOUR samples. Tyco doesn't care where they go that much.

oh and since they're offset and all that, the AMP connector wont work.

Jeff, thanks for the pics.

This is a great thread for a cheap COP setup. If the connectors can be found, this would be awesome.

Just a few questions with this setup.

1. Does anyone know if this setup is actually stronger than the stock 1.6L ignition setup. I know the benefits of not having to run plug wires and noise, but in terms of actual spark voltage/power, is there a definitive answer. I'm contemplating with my turbo setup to go this route or to put an MSD DIS-2 system in. I'm having misfires running at 15psi now.

2. I have an AEM EMS. Are the dwell settings the same for this ignition setup. Anyone know what it should be?

come on nub, this thread is only 11 pages, and all of your questions have already been asked and answered :nono:


:hahano:

well the fact that the COPs have cured Brian's failed rings says a lot :rofl:

14.:bigtu: On the default number of posts per page anyways.

Post 395!!!!

Ok people are you ready!!! I'm proud to anounce that the connector is...

GM Part number 88973784 and GM list is $4.58 and at GM direct it is $2.71

http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/

I verified this with a GM distributor and had him look up connector to verify that that part number was the terminal for the ignition coil.

You guys owe me one! =)

EDIT - wait wait... GM 88974044 (List $23.26, Gm parts direct $13.79) shows to be the connector. (withoug leads)

88973784 could just be a terminal.

So we'd need four connectors and 16 terminals, right?

Sorry if I offended anyone on the nob post here. What I was asking is if anyone actually knows the specifications of the coils and the spark it produces. Most of the evidence show are just from not experiencing any more misfires and spark plugs looking better. The cure for these things can be attributed to many factors including a 15yr old stock ignition system that may not have been up to par. These coils are for toyota corollas and that car doesn't require a high performance ignition system capable of handling the duties of forced induction. You are basically changing from one OEM system to another that is of the equivalent type of car stock. Which is why I asked the question.

As to the dwell time, the AEM can change the dwell time and yes I did miss the post that I can select the toyota corolla coils which would make my life easier for this conversion. However, I see many are using this with the stock ECU which has dwell setting for the stock miata igniter and coil. Are the dwell setting for the stock miata the same as for these toyota cop. If the toyota coils require less dwell time, you may overheat these igniters, if they require more, they might not be used to their potential. I have not seen any post that tells me what the dwell settings are for these coils.

you should be able to pick the contacts up for very very very cheap at onlinecomponents.com if you figure out the size/shape. Most likely .070" contacts as Ben found the ecu contacts works.

however, it's a shame that the connectors will cost more than my coils...I see a date with epoxy in my future.

calm yo'self Red. One of our members, JasonC, is going to test the Toyo coils for output and best dwell in the next few days

+1
For a few bucks each, I would be cool with it. For over $100? Solder-on terminals, wire, and epoxy. Atleast I have a PNP connection at the car side of the harness.

For the two people that were interested, if you guys still want to paypal me $40 to build harness for you guys, I will. They will be nicely done, ready to plug in, soldered, heat shrunk, ground wire will have a ring terminal, connections labeled, etc. If you send me your ignitor, I'll open it and solder the leads on to it, like how I did mine. If not, I can solder on some terminal pins.

B

Sorry, took your initial response as somewhat snippy when I feel I was asking a valid question.

Read the thread and you'll find your answers. :vash:

$40 to you or $67 to GM.... you need a better price break my friend :)

Hey newguy, you need to lurk moar. And also read the rest of the thread. This thread is an encyclopedia of nollij.

I've read all the posts, questions aren't answered. Do you know how much energy per spark these coils produce? Since you've changed the settings on the AEM, were they different from the stock miata setup? Is the dwell setting for the 1.8L miata different from the 1.6L?

I'm sorry if I seem rude or I'm asking questions that seem to be difficult. Many people post things and says it works for them. I tend to like to know what I'm putting into my car and why. I know you've had good results from your setup, however you have the ability to change your dwell settings to the corolla default which is the correct way of doing it. However, I see people with stock ecu jumping onto the bandwagon. I'd think they would like to know if this will fry their coils.

As I mentioned before, your going from one stock ignition setup on a similar NA car to another stock ignition setup from a different manufacturer. The new setup many not be as strong as what mazda had.

In the thread it's been posted that I had them working using the miata settings in my ems without overheating...it's also posted to use the dwell wizard and choose the toyota coils (scion tc ect). It's also posted someone is having the coils tested to see what optimum dwell is and what the output power is. Why cop? It's been posted that the engine runs smoother, eliminated the plug wires, increades the gas miliage, and there cheap. As far as coil strenght? How about firing a .080 gap with 12psi on a fried plug? I posted the pics. Or the fact that open air it'll jump 1.25-1.5" ark length? What more do you want that hasn't already been answered in the thread? I know it takes alot of time to read 400+ posts but I myself have spent alot of time figuring this system out and providing any and all information I have about it. Not to mention writing alot of the posts. I'm not about to answer it all for the 10th time. Sorry to be harsh but that's what forums are...reading.

Red, we'll have hard numbers soon enough. But the data aquired so far is positive.

It wasn't $67. It was 13.79x4 + 2.71x16. That's $100, and for just pigtails. I offered to make a whole harness, from end to end. And really only for 90-93 because I don't have anything else in my driveway to test fit and test run each harness on. And after I buy materials (lots of wire, heat shrink, pins, etc) and pay postage and paypal fees, I'm probably going to see $5 profit for what is likely 1-2 hours' worth of work. Hardly a money making scheme, more like a favor for those who can't do it themselves. The chance for profit certainly wasn't my initiative. And it damn sure isn't an incentive.

B

oh you were adding in the "could be terminal". my bad. i thought it was a set of pins and connectors without wiring for 13.79.

damn ben you're right! please forgive me.

still... i have hopes of finding the OEM for the connectors and ordering samples. that'd be schweet and save you some work.

Ben,

Thank you, hard numbers would be nice.

Lazzer408, I don't mean to critisize your setup. That's not the intention. If you read my post carefully, I did mention I know the benefits of the COP setup. I was asking about spark strength numbers and compatibility.

I can put on GM coils on my car and it'll work. It'll fire up and run smoothly, but eventually I'll fry those coils cause the dwell settings are shorter than what the stock system is set at. My point is things may work for a while, but if you don't really understand what your putting into your car, your taking a risk. Your covered in that you've changed your dwell settings with the AEM. Those that don't have that liberty may fry their coils. If your so confident on the settings are the same as stock, why did you even bother changing it to the toyota setting. Might they be different?

Your results of smoother, better mileage etc as I had said can be due to many factors including the fact that your stock coils may have been on it's way out.

In a few days we'll have optimal dwell numbers for the coils as well as an idea of their output.

as well as a comparison to 01+ coils. Should be cool.

Hmm so I can take these dwell numbers and... oh right, do nothing because the Link can't adjust dwell.

I heard that ray changed the Link for FMs race car to tweak the dwell for the coils the used. Shame I am not a firmware programmer.

sell the link, go MS! :gay:

If I end up in a state that does OBD2 scans, I am screwed, or at least will have to go through a major hassle.

don't understand... do you have a Link piggy? I wouldn't expect any piggy to have any dwell control. But you could run a parallel ms ecu, like what cjernigan is doing.

My coils are fine. As I said before I was running COP in wasted spark setup for over 1000miles using the stock Miata dwell. No problem. You can do what you want.

"I can put on GM coils on my car and it'll work. It'll fire up and run smoothly, but eventually I'll fry those coils cause the dwell settings are shorter than what the stock system is set at." I thought you had an EMS. ;)

I'm running the standalone obiwan link. I wouldn't run 18 psi on a link piggy. That is like pulling the pin on a grenade.

What is the story with those GM connectors? Are we still waiting on someone to figure out if they fit? I can't wait to have my car running again. I decided to wait on turning it over until I get the new coils in.

The 1.8 coil system is one giant block of epoxy with no way to disassemble. The plugs are permanently attached. It looks like I'm either going to need a connector of some sort or I'm just going to have to snip into the wires.

Does anyone know where to get a male plug that matches the pattern of the 1.8L coil packs?

I was speaking for people that would be running this as stock. Plus the stock igniter's current limit is different, so I wouldn't be utilizing the GM coils properly anyways. If I am to do it, I would run the same setup as you are with sequential fire on the AEM EMS. It's a pretty slick setup. I just wanted confirmation if this is better than the stock setup and how much better with regards to spark energy.