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Current proven setups
I think it would be a good idea to have a centralized location for everyone's current (or former), real world, proven setups. There is some discussion going on over at another thread about making a sticky with the information about when the stock internals/transmission DO give up.. how about some information about the "safe zone" so noobies can figure out what their realistic goals should be.
Post up: Which turbo, which intercooler (if any), meth/water or not, what boost you're seeing, what transmission you're using, stock internals or built motor, WHP and WTQ if you know them, Spark map if you're feeling generous.. Anything else you feel is pertinent. Yes, I know, all of this information is probably out there, but let's be honest: it's scattered across 20 different threads that are 30 pages long. That's a lot of pages. |
I believe most, if not all, this information has already been posted in the "All your answers here" thread.
https://www.miataturbo.net/useful-sa...ig-post-10821/ As for spool data, there is a thread "I want your spool data" It contains spool vs rpm data along with details of each particular set up. https://www.miataturbo.net/diy-turbo...ol-data-26641/ As for the build motors, there is also a thread for that in engine performance. https://www.miataturbo.net/engine-pe...onation-42072/ As for spark maps, well that's a quick way to have people blow up their motors. There really isn't a "one size fits all". Also, it encourages laziness. Really the best way to go is to get a the base msq from diyautotune and tune each particular vehicle. Not to rain on your parade is just mostly all there really EDIT: Added links for the threads. |
Originally Posted by mlev
(Post 1125344)
Yes, I know, all of this information is probably out there, but let's be honest: it's scattered across 20 different threads that are 30 pages long. That's a lot of pages.
There are several sparkmaps listed in the "much ado about timing" and "settings" threads, but neither of them include much information about what kind of gas those people are running, do they have forged internals, are they running meth/water/FMIC etc. |
i wouldn't really reference my diy faq anymore, it's pretty outdated.
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Originally Posted by mlev
(Post 1125388)
And the idea is that the spark maps included ALONG WITH all the information about their current setup would let you know whether or not it's a good idea to even think about using it.
There are several sparkmaps listed in the "much ado about timing" and "settings" threads, but neither of them include much information about what kind of gas those people are running, do they have forged internals, are they running meth/water/FMIC etc.
Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 1125392)
i wouldn't really reference my diy faq anymore, it's pretty outdated.
I think understanding the concept is better than having a "to do" list. For example reading a compressor map and carrying a few calculations to see what ballpark figures a particular set up would be on. If I've cared to know these things when I first started I wouldn't done what I did. BUT I just wanted to go fast right away |
Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 1125392)
i wouldn't really reference my diy faq anymore, it's pretty outdated.
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Originally Posted by hornetball
(Post 1125414)
Brain, it's perfect for those of us with Greddy's and MS1's. LOL. :party:
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To clarify, I've read all the scattered posts. I've read the path to power. I know stock internals go boom around 250wtq and that the 5 speed is right around the same (depending on mechanical empathy). I know where the weak links lie, and when the injectors get maxed out and all of that.
I just think it would be a good idea to centralize a summary of builds, instead of having to page through 50 different build threads, outdated stickies, signatures, and ramblings. I also think it would be good to have a centralized location of REAL WORLD numbers that people can relate to--turbo size, PSI, what went boom and what didn't. As you all know, very few people on here spend the time on a dyno to make sure they're under 250wtq before going forged rods and 6speed. If I'm the only one that thinks it would be a good idea, feel free to give me negative props and lock the thread, and I'll continue to slog through 50 pages of outdated build threads with broken pictures and links. |
Originally Posted by mlev
(Post 1125437)
I just think it would be a good idea to centralize a summary of builds, instead of having to page through 50 different build threads, outdated stickies, signatures, and ramblings.
I also think it would be good to have a centralized location of REAL WORLD numbers that people can relate to--turbo size, PSI, what went boom and what didn't. As you all know, very few people on here spend the time on a dyno to make sure they're under 250wtq before going forged rods and 6speed. Great, then do it. If it's worthy of a sticky, I'm sure one of the mods will sticky it. |
If you can get everybody to participate, or start compiling information from the build threads yourself, this could be really useful.
I'll start you off- 1.6l with approx 160,000 miles at time of install. 180k+ and climbing. Mitsu TD05 turbo, 8psi Wideband 02 2002 purple top Miata injectors 265cc Generic FMIC ACT ZM2-HDSS clutch Upgraded radiator, don't recall the brand MSPNP9093, professional tune. No dyno numbers, but the car moves very well. |
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Stock 1.8L with 160,000 miles
Rebuilt Garrett t25 turbo from an sr20 motor Flyin Miata cast manifold Flyin Miata FMII FMIC with piping Flylin Miata discharge pipe Custom catless downpipe Custom intake Hallman Pro manual boost controller (10-11 psi) RX-7 460cc red top injectors Subaru STi fuel pump DIY MSPNP2 with a protune Stage 2 Comp clutch Various oil and coolant lines Innovative wideband Stock radiator Stock 5 speed 202 whp / 192 tq https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1398714086 |
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edit: double post
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I also like this idea, information gets outdated really fast. It's also nice to just read stuff.
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Not sure how "current" these are, but here's a few from the dyno thread:
https://www.miataturbo.net/dynos-tim...ake-ms2-77620/ -'97 NA8 with good compression (105k miles) -CA 91 gas -RB header -FM exhaust with high flow cat -DIY intake/cone filter -Exhintake cam swap -PNP MS2 -Coolant Reroute -A/C & PS delete -Tuned by Church Automotive Testing https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1392955248 --- https://www.miataturbo.net/dynos-tim...10lbish-78577/ -1.8L -VVT -Precision 4828 -roughly 10psi https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...sh-image1-jpeg --- https://www.miataturbo.net/dynos-tim...psi-e85-72899/ -NB8A stock -T25 -Log mani -3 "inch turbo back -Intercooler -850 cc injectors -Dw200 -Haltech ps1000 ecu -E85 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1369182252 --- https://www.miataturbo.net/dynos-tim...-14-psi-75326/ -FM Manifold/DP (Old style kit) -GT2560 -3 in exhaust after cat -2.5 DP/ Testpipe -diypnp -RC440 -COPs -ebay intercooler (22 x 7 x 2.5 core) -2.25 diy intercooler piping -greddy knock off bov -vtps -EBC -AEM wideband -14PSI 234 ft-lbs / 224 WHP @ 14PSI 187 ft-lbs / 190 WHP @ 8PSI https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1380810378 --- https://www.miataturbo.net/dynos-tim...180-whp-69188/ -1.8L NB engine -450cc injectors -m45 -15% pulley -audi a6 intercooler 180 WHP / 230NM (170 ft-lbs) https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1351582356 |
Might as well post my stupidcharged experiences. All three charts come from Church tuning. All the details here:
https://www.miataturbo.net/build-thr...ical-bs-76372/ Iteration 1: 190 hp / 172 ft-lbs -Stock 1.8 from a 96 -Ca 91 Pump -MS1 -M45 JRSC with 150mm overlay at 8 psi -DDM Works Intake -Old RB Exhaust -Diy Intercooler -Toyota Cops https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1386055100 Iteration 2: 241 hp / 224ft-lbs This iteration of the motor had a few issues. Timing not synced right and worn valve springs that began to float above 6K. -99 Head with +1mm Oversized valves -BP5A Cam -Skunk2 Honda Intake Manifold -9:1 Bottom end with CP Pistons and H Beams -CA 91 -MS2 -ID1000 Injectors -Homebrew M62 at 13 psi -Old RB Exhaust -Stock Header with porting inside. -Diy Intercooler -Toyota Cops https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1386055738 Iteration 3: 288hp / 263ft-lbs This iteration was still not perfect. Had too small of an exhaust (2.25") I didnt realize the older RB was smaller. Ended up ditching the setup and going NA shortly after so I will never know if it could have broken 300. -99 Head with +1mm Oversized valves -BP5A Cam with adjustable gears -Skunk2 Honda Intake Manifold -9:1 Bottom end with CP Pistons and H Beams -E85 -MS2 -ID1000 Injectors -Homebrew M62 at 14psi -Old RB Exhaust -Jackson Racing Header -Diy V Mount Intercooler -Toyota Cops https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1386972626 |
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I'm just going to re-post this here.
Originally Posted by mlev
(Post 1125437)
To clarify, I've read all the scattered posts. I've read the path to power. I know stock internals go boom around 250wtq and that the 5 speed is right around the same (depending on mechanical empathy). I know where the weak links lie, and when the injectors get maxed out and all of that.
I just think it would be a good idea to centralize a summary of builds, instead of having to page through 50 different build threads, outdated stickies, signatures, and ramblings... |
Which turbo: GT2554r (Begi S1 kit)
which intercooler: BeGi Type1 what boost: 10psi at time of dyno. 12psi now, 16psi incoming. what transmission: 5spd stock internals or built motor: AMS built motor. 9.0:1 JE pistons, Eagle rods, ARP e'er'thang, BP4W head ported and polished, VICS manifold (VICS tied open) 10psi dyno. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1395169056 |
Originally Posted by concealer404
(Post 1126694)
Which turbo: GT2554r (Begi S1 kit)
which intercooler: BeGi Type1 what boost: 10psi at time of dyno. 12psi now, 16psi incoming. what transmission: 5spd stock internals or built motor: AMS built motor. 9.0:1 JE pistons, Eagle rods, ARP e'er'thang, BP4W head ported and polished, VICS manifold (VICS tied open) |
Who knows. I think Ben should name that car 'Fantastic Planet', because it's fucking weird and makes no sense but you just can't look away.
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Originally Posted by mlev
(Post 1126714)
Do you mind if I ask why you built ? Was it future proofing for higher boost? 10psi/12psi should be fine on that setup stock, right? 16 may be pushing it tho.
I don't care if 16psi is pushing it or not. I'll probably spike this bitch to 20psi in the midrange and let it taper to 16psi by redline. What's the worst that happens as long as my IATs are acceptable? I blow a turbo? Oh no.... PLEASE don't make me upgrade to a 2860. :bowrofl: Oh, and to make it even more strange: The car is a 95.
Originally Posted by thenuge26
(Post 1126718)
Who knows. I think Ben should name that car 'Fantastic Planet', because it's fucking weird and makes no sense but you just can't look away.
I almost looped the fucking thing doing a u-turn on Southport this morning in traffic. Was going about 12mph in 2nd gear. I sneezed, and suddenly was completely slideways across the road. A gnarly tank slapper and a little piss later, everything was ok. |
Originally Posted by concealer404
(Post 1126727)
I almost looped the fucking thing doing a u-turn on Southport this morning in traffic. Was going about 12mph in 2nd gear. I sneezed, and suddenly was completely slideways across the road. A gnarly tank slapper and a little piss later, everything was ok.
I was making a big sweeper right handed corner in the rain and went for the throttle mid-corner. Tail end broke loose, and I lifted like a fool. I ended up 40mph going backwards down a local highway. This was under stock power. Just didn't realize what a balanced car was like. |
It has less to do with that than it does that boost threshold on this thing is sub-1400rpms and it will build full boost immediately. Anywhere.
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Ah I figured it was just your crappy blown stock suspension.
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Nah bro, it's got a big RB front bar. And some super awesome GR2s.
And the best tire ever, the bald T1R. |
Originally Posted by concealer404
(Post 1126735)
It has less to do with that than it does that boost threshold on this thing is sub-1400rpms and it will build full boost immediately. Anywhere.
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It's not as good as it sounds. I would HIGHLY suggest a 2560.
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Ermahghed! Did somebody mention sub 1400 rpm boost! *Insert generic supercharger ramblings.
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Various cars on various dynos.
NB8C -Unequal length short tubular (absurdflow rear mounted style) -GT2560 -2.5" exhaust with hotdog and muffler -separated gases 3"dump pipe and 3" cat, smooth transition back to 2.5" -Haltech PS1000 -RX8 injectors -Stock ignition -cheap intercooler (550x140x65) -2" coldside 2.5" hotside piping -Turbosmart kompact 34/34mm valve (evo stock replacement) -EBC via the ecu on a MAC valve -12psi 235WHP https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1398815968 NB8C -Close to equal length tubular with a decent collector 16-17" runners -Brand new volvo T5 turbo (pics) -2.5" exhaust after the cart, smooth transition -3" seperated gases dump pipe and cat -Adaptronic select ecu -Deutschwork 750cc -cheap intercooler (550x140x65) -2" coldside 2.5" hotside piping -Works Engineering carbon airbox -Bov and gate are built into the turbo -Bleed valve, manual boost control 185whpish on 7psi 210whpish on 10psi (different days) https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1398815968 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1398815968 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1398815968 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1398815968 NB8A -Flowy log, side/high mount like an FM manifold -GT2876r -2.5 in exhaust after cat -3" bellmouth dump pipe and cat -Adaptronic select ECU -RX8's -cheap intercooler (550x140x65) -2.5" lobsterback colside and 2.5" mandrel coldside piping -No BOV -Heavily ported internal gate and 5.5psi actuator 156WHP@3.8PSI https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1398815968 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1398815968 Ill come back and do some more. Dann |
Excellent info, props to you good sir!
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Track proven build:
STOCK 1.6 engine ARTech Taco T3 clone manifold Hybrid T3 turbo, journal bearing, 55 trim TSE Inconel stage 8 kit (a must) Turbosmart controller, bov, wg 430cc injectors EBay IC 25row eBay oil cooler MSPNP Mtuned reroute A good tune Putting 274rwhp, 235ish ftlb It's somewhere in the build thread... |
Even after reading through this thread, i'm not sure what is REALLY being proven here. Mainly because there is so many (maybe even endless) variables at play...
But i'll chip in. My last dyno appearance. https://www.miataturbo.net/dynos-tim...es-pull-75792/ My car made 262hp with a little crummy 2560 at 12psi. Which is guess is the crazy "proven" part. Perhaps it's my engine builder, maybe my engine internals. Probably a combination of both. Because as we all know looking at my datalog / tune it's absolutely not that. haha Or could be another "proven" point that a garbage tune doesn't always mean bad numbers. Built engine(95 block and head). Scat rods, Supertech pistons 9.0:1 1mm over, ballanced, BE oil pump, Gates WP and TB, ACL bearings. PnP head, Supertech 1mm over valves with supertech 63lb dual springs. Fully rebuilt with all new parts and 99+ retainers. gt2560 with FM log manifold and turndown everything fully PnP. Ran on wastegate pressure. (FM no electronics kit) Turbosmart BOV 2.5" FM exhaust with test pipe. 750cc 5o injectors, with MS2. (stock fuel and spark) 350hp intercooler. FM stage 2 clutch. |
Flyin Miata just posted to FB that they just dynod an FMII build.
supposedly a stock internal 99 with a 2560 running 10psi made uncorrected 263 at the wheels. They said "the 3" exhaust makes a big difference". That seems awful high to me. Or am I wrong and that's bout right? I would expect closer to ~220ish at the wheels for 10psi uncorrected. |
It's high.
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I asked if their dyno needed calibrating and he responded "lol no - good ecu, good exhaust, good tuner."
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Their dyno has always put out higher numbers than you would expect. I keep that in mind anytime I view a dyno sheet from them.
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Dyno numbers don't matter, but yes, their numbers have always been extremely high. Our old MSM was dyno'd at FM, and again with a MUCH stronger tune two years later on a different dyno locally.
There was a 50whp spread between the two dynos. And..... FM's dyno was the one that read higher, despite the car being WAY faster at the time of putting the lower numbers on the local dyno. Dynos are for tuning, not for bragging rights. |
I think Hustler made like 260whp with a 2860 at 16psi or something. Definitely high, but it's legal now so everything in CO should be high :party:
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Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 1125392)
i wouldn't really reference my diy faq anymore, it's pretty outdated.
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deltree
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We do need to update the FAQ.
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faq that
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Proven setup:
BEGi-S Garrett GT2554R.... oh wait. Nevermind. This setup blew up. |
Forgot about this thread until randomly stumbling onto it this morning.
Originally Posted by concealer404
(Post 1126735)
It has less to do with that than it does that boost threshold on this thing is sub-1400rpms and it will build full boost immediately. Anywhere.
Originally Posted by concealer404
(Post 1126745)
It's not as good as it sounds. I would HIGHLY suggest a 2560.
The slope before peak torque does look good though, like it picks up butter smooth and doens't really "hit", just ramps up |
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