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Old 07-30-2010, 03:40 PM   #61
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This is the design for the one I built for my car.

Each runner is 16.7” long, equal length.

Merge collector is smooth transistion straight into turbo.

Another thing I see on a lot of other custom turbo manifolds is I think the runner diameter is too big. If the cross sectional area of the runner is much bigger than the exaust port cross sectional area at the flange between the head and the manifold then you are just loosing energy by slowing down the exhust flow where it has to speed up again to fit through the turbo. There is more loss in doing that than there is running down smaller diameter pipes to the turbo. Velocity is your friend, energy is a fuction of the velocity squared. you want to maintain all the peak velocity you can from the exhaus pulses till they hit the turbo.


FWIW I also made one just kind of a short smooth runner non equal length. The difference in spool, throttle response, and power is dramatic.

Bob
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Old 07-30-2010, 03:58 PM   #62
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Have any pics of the fabricated product Bob? Concept drawing looks NICE.
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Old 07-30-2010, 04:19 PM   #63
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just about any competitive turbo car in RLTA is running schedule-40 pipe and V-bands. If you don't believe this, you're a moron.
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Old 07-30-2010, 05:34 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thagr81 us View Post
Have any pics of the fabricated product Bob? Concept drawing looks NICE.
I will dig them up and try post them tonight.

Schedual 40 mild steel has lasted through serious abuse on the track for a couple years now since a few mods and do over of my first attempt.

Also Went to Inconel studs to hold the turbo on. I did notice ATP has made a V-band compressor housing for the GT3071R-WG looks like the just take the T2 flanged stock internal WG housing and machine a V-band connection on it. My next version probably will be that but for now this is working.

Bob
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Old 07-30-2010, 10:15 PM   #65
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Some pictures. And of course the turbo flange studs stretched and the nuts fell off as is typical for turbo miatas driven stoopid fast. Inconel studs and Resbond in now.

My first one cracked at the collector to turbo flange joint. The welded in gussets that the turbo flange studs thread into seems to have cured that problem. I also learned to compleat all the welds on each runner completely before putting them together in the manufacturing process and don’t do relief cuts in the head flange.

Bob
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Old 07-30-2010, 10:18 PM   #66
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Looks nice for a DIY manifold... Did you do any bracing on the manifold? If not, any problems with cracking yet?
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Old 07-30-2010, 10:39 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
fast forward to 2:20.... this is the type of person that does a remote turbo install:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m67ZMn0tzg8


yes, he has a remote turbo...or had. it "blew up" on the dyno, twice.
ive seen that goofy retarded poor miata online before... I feel sorry for that NA.
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Old 07-30-2010, 11:22 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thagr81 us View Post
Did you do any bracing on the manifold? If not, any problems with cracking yet?
Quote:
...The welded in gussets that the turbo flange studs thread...
Apparently so.

Gorgeous manifold bbundy. Eventually I need to upgrade to a AF design piece for a simpler dp, better/bigger turbo, and the like. I'm years behind with my greddy piece.
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Old 07-31-2010, 12:20 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by curly View Post
Apparently so.
I was mainly talking about the runners... But as long as it ain't cracking don't fix it.
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Old 07-31-2010, 03:59 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thagr81 us View Post
I was mainly talking about the runners... But as long as it ain't cracking don't fix it.
Runners have not cracked. My first one cracked at the weld to the turbo flange after the lower support cracked.

It's got a little diving board support underneth the turbo to the block very similar to the MSM factory one. The support cracked made out of cheap weld steel from the hardware store. Made it out of highr grade 4130 plate and it hasn't cracked.

Bob
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Old 07-31-2010, 02:09 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbundy View Post
FWIW I also made one just kind of a short smooth runner non equal length. The difference in spool, throttle response, and power is dramatic.
You're saying the equal length one was much better than the shorty, correct?
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Old 07-31-2010, 03:46 PM   #72
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Equal length exhaust headers are interesting. It's good for huge power gains in non turbo headers vs standard headers. The muscle car crowd has known this forever, it's just tough and expensive to do right. Will be interesting to know if that's equally true for turbo'd applications.
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Old 07-31-2010, 04:13 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbundy View Post
FWIW I also made one just kind of a short smooth runner non equal length. The difference in spool, throttle response, and power is dramatic.

Bob

Bob, can you elaborate on this a little? I would expect a shorty manifold to have better throttle response and spool, and an equal length to have better mid-range and top-end power.
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Old 07-31-2010, 06:50 PM   #74
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Yeah I wanna know too. I hope to make a true equal length ramhorn style manifold for someone here (ha!) to find out for sure myself, but my only sorta equal length ramhorn manifold was much more laggy than a shorter manifold, but when it did spool it was nuts.
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Old 08-01-2010, 02:56 AM   #75
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All I do know is that many members of this forum will say "sch 40 is a minimum", and if you say that youre building a manifold out of sch 40 on a honda people will think that your cheese done slid off your cracker.
The manifold I am using on my project is sch. 40. I wouldn't think of going with anything thinner. I prefer to spend money once, if I can help it. Sure the manifold was a little over a grand, but for that I get a life time guarantee against cracking, and a great flowing manifold to boot!
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Old 08-01-2010, 10:38 AM   #76
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Nice looking manifold you have there... MOAR PICS! Also who built it for you? Just curious even though it appears it will be going on an F20C by your sig....
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Old 08-01-2010, 01:08 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thagr81 us View Post
Nice looking manifold you have there... MOAR PICS! Also who built it for you? Just curious even though it appears it will be going on an F20C by your sig....
Built by a guy local to me, Pfabrications is the company. He builds some nice ****. He mainly focuses on honda, and subi, stuff. But has built some incredible one off stuff.

Don't want to hijack the thread. more manifold and build pics in my thread over in the build section. title is "f20c engine conversion"
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Old 08-01-2010, 09:24 PM   #78
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What we need is someone to build three different manifolds on the same jig: semi-log (like ETD), Absurdflow and ram's horn. Keep everything else in the system the same, except for the tuning. Best to do it on the same car.

Spend some time arguing about what supporting mods to start with. I'd suggest having all other elements optimized approaching overkill so the only limits are the turbo manifold itself. Three-inch exhaust and a better intake manifold. '99 head. Etc.

Dyno them all under the same conditions using strict procedure discipline.

Then have a bunch of people say the results are not relevant because of the supporting mods.

Any volunteers?
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Old 08-01-2010, 09:30 PM   #79
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My ramhorn's going to be a drop in replacement for sav w/results if everything goes to plan. No plans for a log style, especially one with that low/bottom mount location & especially especially not with his sick setup.
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Old 08-01-2010, 10:05 PM   #80
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ITT: Sav installs greddy mani/turbo. Lol.

Quote:
Then have a bunch of people say the results are not relevant because of the supporting mods.
This is both a joke and a serious note, but I wouldn't want any manifold test bed to have anything but a stock manifold. You might not get the best test results since the intake manifold may stop the turbo manifold from performing at it's best, but 99% of us have a stock intake manifold.
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