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Old 11-10-2006, 12:41 PM   #1
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Default Wideband decisions, questions?

All right, I've scoured the internet looking... and as luck would have it, the cheapest place I found was eBay. He's got 100% positive feedback, so I think I'm gonna buy today:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Innov...53352558QQrdZ1

That's $167 shipped for the LC-1... whaddya think?

I think for now, I'm going to skip the gauge and do my work on the laptop with the datalogging software.

Question1: Without the RPM kit, I won't be able to tell exactly what's going on. What's the workaround or trick to be able to accurately follow the A/F curve along the Tach.

Question2: Also considering an O2 clamp. If I get the thing tuned as well as I can but still have enough lean tip-in that it's a problem, will the install of an O2 clamp require tuning everything all over again?

Question3: What is the relation between timing an A/F... or is there one? I'm curious to know how to make my Bipes adjustments and what affect it will have on A/F's. I know to basically dial it back until the pinging goes away, and then dial it back one more... but how, in general, does timing changes affect A/F's. I'm not sure that there is a direct relation, but doesn't hurt to ask.
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Old 11-10-2006, 12:48 PM   #2
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Someone is hosting a group buy on the Zeitronix Units over here. I am jumping in for sure. No conventional gauges for me in this Gti. You can log a/f vs RPM vs Boost to make for quick and easy tuning.http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2916992

I used to have the AEM and I still have my LM1 for tuning others cars. I have been happy with both of them. Seems like most the units on the market now are pretty solid. A buddy of mine just threw down for the PLX 500 R. Once its up and running I will try and get some feedback from him on that unit as well.

Last edited by Kelly; 11-10-2006 at 12:59 PM.
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Old 11-10-2006, 12:53 PM   #3
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The LC1 is the smart ($$$) way to buy now... my DIY Tech Edge kit would cost more, and I'd be stuck with a big *** unit and ten hours of soldering.

NBsim and O2 clamp probably oughtta be done first thing - it's a good idea to get all your management up and running and playing nice together before you put any serious work into tuning it.

I'm pretty sure you can hook up an NBO2 gauge to the NBsim from the LC1 and get useful in-cockpit feedback without the laptop... that's my plan anyway.

As far as datalogging, I think you'll need to pony up the big bucks for Innovate's gauge. But I could be wrong - I'm going MS, so I know I have datalogging covered.
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Old 11-10-2006, 01:32 PM   #4
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Check out innovate's website. They have a 4 channel interface SSI-4. It is an interface between your sensors and the laptop. Just add a cheap map to it. That with the lc-1 will give you the ablility to monitor/log 5 different items. The LMA-3 adds onboard map and thermo sensors, but is 2x the price.

I was going to go with the lma, but I am not having such a good experience with innovate to where I want to give them more money. Something else I found was the Bradatech box which has 4 analog and 2 digital ins. I'm assuming that the digital in would log rpm, but haven't looked into it. But it's super cheap and logs to a windowsmobile pda. Tap a few sensors, get a cheap map, and hook your lc-1 analog out to it. Pretty f'n cool for cheap.

http://69.196.149.208/bradatech_corp.../serialbox.asp

Quote:
Originally Posted by samnavy View Post
All right, I've scoured the internet looking... and as luck would have it, the cheapest place I found was eBay. He's got 100% positive feedback, so I think I'm gonna buy today:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Innov...53352558QQrdZ1

That's $167 shipped for the LC-1... whaddya think?

I think for now, I'm going to skip the gauge and do my work on the laptop with the datalogging software.

Question1: Without the RPM kit, I won't be able to tell exactly what's going on. What's the workaround or trick to be able to accurately follow the A/F curve along the Tach.

Question2: Also considering an O2 clamp. If I get the thing tuned as well as I can but still have enough lean tip-in that it's a problem, will the install of an O2 clamp require tuning everything all over again?

Question3: What is the relation between timing an A/F... or is there one? I'm curious to know how to make my Bipes adjustments and what affect it will have on A/F's. I know to basically dial it back until the pinging goes away, and then dial it back one more... but how, in general, does timing changes affect A/F's. I'm not sure that there is a direct relation, but doesn't hurt to ask.
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Old 11-10-2006, 02:58 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samnavy View Post
Question1: Without the RPM kit, I won't be able to tell exactly what's going on. What's the workaround or trick to be able to accurately follow the A/F curve along the Tach.
if you know when you hit the gas and when you let-off you can figure out what's going on.

Quote:
Question2: Also considering an O2 clamp. If I get the thing tuned as well as I can but still have enough lean tip-in that it's a problem, will the install of an O2 clamp require tuning everything all over again?
yes and no. It shouldn't effect the rest of the AFR curve. However if you tune your FMU to increase the pressure at 0 ~hg. to try to cure the lean tip-in, you may have to adjust it back a bit.

Quote:
Question3: What is the relation between timing an A/F... or is there one? I'm curious to know how to make my Bipes adjustments and what affect it will have on A/F's. I know to basically dial it back until the pinging goes away, and then dial it back one more... but how, in general, does timing changes affect A/F's. I'm not sure that there is a direct relation, but doesn't hurt to ask.
I didn't notice a change in the AFR. But you'll be able to see knock with lean spikes. Advance it much and you'll probably see a leaner AFR as your making more HP and you might have less fuel then.
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Old 11-10-2006, 09:41 PM   #6
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That's $167 shipped for the LC-1... whaddya think?
Great deal, I think I'll get one too!
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Old 11-11-2006, 10:17 AM   #7
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I just bought the same wide band from this seller. I haven't installed it yet, but I can say it was shipped very quickly and came in a sealed box.
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Old 11-11-2006, 10:45 AM   #8
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Great, I'm sold on the LC-1 for now. What about a gauge. I think I'm sold on the $9 readout. I suppose there's a real simple way to get it to read right? If I can get a quality wideband gauge for under $50, I think I might consider it... I've got a spare hole in my gauge pod. Any suggestions+source for a good cheap gauge? I've scoured eBay and there's a few used ones for fairly cheap but I think they're all narrowband. Looks like a good wideband is up in the $80 range and more.
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Old 11-11-2006, 02:03 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samnavy View Post
Great, I'm sold on the LC-1 for now. What about a gauge. I think I'm sold on the $9 readout. I suppose there's a real simple way to get it to read right? If I can get a quality wideband gauge for under $50, I think I might consider it... I've got a spare hole in my gauge pod. Any suggestions+source for a good cheap gauge? I've scoured eBay and there's a few used ones for fairly cheap but I think they're all narrowband. Looks like a good wideband is up in the $80 range and more.
Sam, Cheapy narowband gauge can be used. Cheap because they're worthless (as is) and everybody know it! EDIT: The following is LM-1 info. Don't know if LC-1 is same?

Here is a link and basic setup. Also, a list of narrowband gauges that will work

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/r...ntegration.php

Compatible Autometer Gauges:

2675 Z-Series Air/Fuel Ration (Black Dial & Bezel)
3375 Sport-Comp Air/Fuel Ratio (Black Dial, Silver Bezel)
4175 Lunar Air/Fuel (White Dial, Silver Bezel, Black Numbering & Increments, and Green Nite Glow)
4375 Ultra-Lite Air/Fuel Ratio (Silver Dial, Silver Bezel)
4775 Carbon Fiber Air/Fuel Ratio (Carbon Fiber Dial, Silver Bezel)
5775 Phantom Air/Fuel Ratio (White Dial, Black Bezel)
6175 Cobalt Air/Fuel Ratio (Black Dial, Anodized Bezel, White Numbering & Blue Accents)
7175 C2 Air/Fuel Ratio (White Dial-Blue at night, Chrome Bezel, Orange Pointer, Black Numbering)

Download the LC-1 manual here:
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/support.php


Downloaded it, page 10, looks like it works the same as the LM-1.

One more thing for my novel, I've just "put my time in" lurking around the Innovate forums trying to scan every thread and have picked up little bits of great info here and there. It's a diverse crowd, bad for specifics, good for thinking outside the miata.
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Old 11-11-2006, 03:51 PM   #10
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I will have an Autometer a/f gauge for sale in about 2 weeks. $25 shipped
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Old 11-11-2006, 05:19 PM   #11
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BooYAh
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Old 11-11-2006, 07:33 PM   #12
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I think I can get you a new one from autometer for under $50.
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Old 11-12-2006, 10:45 AM   #13
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Brain, I might be interested... let me do some more homework and I'll get back to you.
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Old 11-15-2006, 03:03 PM   #14
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sam- you can hook up a panel meter to the lc1 that will give you your AF ratio in nice big numbers. That'll help make a connection between your rpm, boost and AF real time so you can tune. - rob
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