Cost Effectiveness of different ECUs - Page 2 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 08-10-2012, 11:58 AM   #21
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Use the ECU you can get suitable support for.
Either you pay with your time (e.g. read forums until your eyes bleed) or you have to pay some else.

Unable to spend the time to learn to install/use MS and no one close by that can help you for cheap, there are better options (especially of you can get support for another solution at a decent cost nearby).

Run whatever suits your situation (as a whole, not just the functions in the box).

It becomes a bit skewed when comparing the lowest possible price for a self built MS to dropping the key in the hands of a tuner and then fetching it when done (no one here have done but it happens).

If the Tuner is too expensive, go to another one...
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Old 08-10-2012, 12:01 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NiklasFalk View Post
Use the ECU you can get suitable support for.
Either you pay with your time (e.g. read forums until your eyes bleed) or you have to pay some else.

Unable to spend the time to learn to install/use MS and no one close by that can help you for cheap, there are better options (especially of you can get support for another solution at a decent cost nearby).

Run whatever suits your situation (as a whole, not just the functions in the box).

It becomes a bit skewed when comparing the lowest possible price for a self built MS to dropping the key in the hands of a tuner and then fetching it when done (no one here have done but it happens).

If the Tuner is too expensive, go to another one...
That's what i'm doing with the Haltech on the Escort. Considering the work going into it, i found the price entirely reasonable.
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Old 08-10-2012, 12:06 PM   #23
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I finally learned tuning because I had to do it myself. It's all I really know and all I care to know. The shop I tune at is really cool and the guy who owns it is jealous of Tuner Studio, lol.

There's also no money in MS for most shops to sell or install.
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Old 08-10-2012, 12:41 PM   #24
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Just to add to the conversation:

I’ve used MS on many vehicles. From what I’ve seen it will get the job done, it’s affordable and there is plenty of community support. I wasn’t a huge fan though. Seemed very bare bones.

I currently run Adaptronic and have been nothing but satisfied with the unit and the company. I make great power and the car is 100% drivable with AC and with complete weather changes. It will support anything I want to do with it with enough options and algorithms to allow a good tuner to get your car running like it was intended to have a turbo slapped to the side of it.

The software interface is very polished unlike what I’ve seen in MS and other management systems. But more importantly, my tuner had never used it before and absolutely loved tuning my car with it.

If I had all of them on the table in front of me and didn’t have to pay for any of them, I’d grab the AEM, sell it and buy an Adaptronic.

There isn't one thing I'd change about the unit. I've got drivability, power, reliability, manufacturer support and 100 other things I probably don't take full advantage of with the Adaptronic.
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Old 08-10-2012, 12:47 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
Y8s went from Haltec to Hydra to MS3x...

I went from MSI to MS2 to MS3 to MS3x
Electromotive Tec3 to Adaptronic to Hydra to MS3x.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spikes View Post
I'm not talking so much the hardware components and their assembly y8s. I'm more talking about the software and its ability to control the more sophisticated functions of an ECU.

The simple part of tuning is getting your fuel and spark tables right, but when it comes to transient functions, 3d or 4d mapped boost control, traction control, closed loop lamba control, logging etc..

edit: 18PSI, could we ever use the example of building a tough engine but using a Nokia 3315 to control it?

I guess I would like some insight into those use more pricier ECUs on the street and track and what their opinions are of it as compared to a Megasquirt
See above.

Having the features is great, but if they suck to use, then who cares?

All of the ECUs I use had some kind of advanced functionality. The Tec was least advanced mostly because of age. But the rest all had some ability to handle the things you mentioned.

The primary difference in my experience is that some ECU companies make weird software interfaces and there's nothing you can do about it.

And then there is the Megasquirt. Don't like the interface? Post on the forum with an alternative and why you think it's better. The devs might actually change the thing and use your ideas. I wanted a phantom "original value" curve for some of the 2D curves because I wanted to know how far I'd already changed when adjusting based on a log so I wouldn't add something twice. It's in there now.

Same goes for feature set. MS3x didn't have knock or VVT control when I first got it but I became active in the community and buddied up to the powers that be and helped test the implementation of the VVT setup and now everyone benefits.

Really they all have the same basic stuff going on with slight differences in how it's implemented.

Do you *need* 4D boost control or did someone tell you the theroetical reason why it might help some people?

For what it's worth, the MS3's onboard SDcard logging is pretty shockingly good. The data rate is super fast.
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Old 08-10-2012, 01:22 PM   #26
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reposted from https://www.miataturbo.net/prefabbed...rbo-kit-65534/

The AEMs are not the cheapest ECUs out there, but they are far from the most expensive, and they provide a fantastic set of features for the money spent. The EMS-4 in particular is one of the new Series 2 boxes, which gives it improved idle control and simply outstanding on-board knock detection capabilities. Not only does the ECU do its own window filtering, you can set a 2D RPM-based noise filter, and we can set a frequency filter in the software, all of which makes the knock sensor highly, highly accurate.

It's also got all of the features that you would expect a good standalone to have - electronic boost control, switchable fuel maps, excellent spark/ignition table resolution, and closed-loop WBO2 feedback. It also has native VVT control and OEM-style A/C control (TPS and RPM dependent), NB alternator control (with our patch harness), etc.

The AEMs are also very, very easy to use. This goes beyond the software (which is very good). The box has native USB support, so the maps download and upload fast, and there's never a struggle to select the right COM port - the AEM takes care of that automatically. The AEM software is based on tabs, and each tab combines several of the settings which you would normally adjust together. For new and intermediate users, there is a small explanation box in the right-hand corner that gives a brief synopsis of each function as you select it, which helps immensely with truly understanding the adjustments you're making. If you're an advanced user and you want to build your own tabs, AEMTuner makes that very easy - I've developed a tab on my tuning PC, for instance, that mimics the old VVT page from AEMPro so I can quickly make alterations to the VVT map. The software provides a fully customizable display of parameters with each screen as well.

For users who want nothing to do with the tuning aspect, the AEM is one of the most widely used standalones in the US across all makes and models. Even if your local dyno shop isn't a Miata expert, the chances are very, very good that someone employed there will be comfortable working with an AEM, and you'll get a great tune as a result.

Overall, the AEMs combine a great featureset, low cost, and the support of a very well-known and respected company. We've been using their ECUs for 2+ years now, and I have never wanted to upgrade or switch to anything else.
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Old 08-10-2012, 01:24 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by olderguy View Post
I went from OEM to Emanage Blue w/autotune and stayed there. Maybe there is more power available, but I haven't needed to play with it for years and it maintains a 12.0~12.5 AFR whenever I am in boost at any level to 14+ psi
Olderguy+1 . Emanage Blue with autotune is a most elegant solution, pulling timing and holding specified AFRs.
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Old 08-10-2012, 01:36 PM   #28
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I don't understand people with drivability problems. I've had MS1 with AC control working just fine with no loss in drivability. Wtih MS2e I hassled with the idle control a lot, but that was because I lacked the knowledge to get it right. After more work, it idles just fine now. It's still not "OEM", but close and you wouldn't be able to tell a difference. Posts about the tune changing with weather, bad idle, and general drivability need to work on their tune.

I've used Adaptronic and I don't understand how the tuning interface is anywhere remotely superior to Tuner Studio in any way.

Wtih all that said, AEM is the only alternative I'd consider.
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Old 08-10-2012, 04:40 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by hustler View Post

I've used Adaptronic and I don't understand how the tuning interface is anywhere remotely superior to Tuner Studio in any way.
Couldn't compare the two - Didn't use TS when I was running my MS. But I have not found any major problems with Adaptronics software.
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Old 08-10-2012, 05:00 PM   #30
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Maybe your tuner is a genius and we're all retards, but every single person on here was having issues with adaptronic. Well maybe not issues but annoying things here and there that had to be addressed.

Hell, some people still to this day can't figure out how to solve some of the quirks.
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Old 08-10-2012, 05:28 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
Maybe your tuner is a genius and we're all retards, but every single person on here was having issues with adaptronic. Well maybe not issues but annoying things here and there that had to be addressed.

Hell, some people still to this day can't figure out how to solve some of the quirks.
I'm really familiar with it at this point so if anyone stumbles upon this thread looking for support - let me know.
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Old 08-10-2012, 05:32 PM   #32
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Couldn't compare the two - Didn't use TS when I was running my MS. But I have not found any major problems with Adaptronics software.
I will not tune Adaptronics until they release a replacement for WARI. It is literally the worst piece of software I have ever used.
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Old 08-10-2012, 06:14 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
I will not tune Adaptronics until they release a replacement for WARI. It is literally the worst piece of software I have ever used.
WARI versus Hydra software: who wins?
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Old 08-10-2012, 07:25 PM   #34
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No one wins. They both lose.
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Old 08-10-2012, 08:03 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
No one wins. They both lose.
107% agreement.
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Old 08-10-2012, 08:25 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by y8s View Post
Do you *need* 4D boost control or did someone tell you the theroetical reason why it might help some people?
To be honest, my knowledge on boost control is still very vague. I was just told about 4D boost control, I wasn't told why it might help.

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Originally Posted by Hustler View Post
It's still not "OEM", but close and you wouldn't be able to tell a difference. Posts about the tune changing with weather, bad idle, and general drivability need to work on their tune.
What do you mean exactly by its not still OEM?

My question of temp correction modeling and transient fuel functions, does it differ between a Megasquirt to (a lets say) AEM ECU?

I'm still going to stick to a MS3x, but I guess it's just nice knowing if I spent extra dollars, what could I have gotten..

Ultimately at the end of the day, Megasquirts are cheap and effective, you can do them yourselves (given you had the knowledge) and there's a wide community of support for them on here
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Old 08-10-2012, 08:35 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by y8s View Post
WARI versus Hydra software: who wins?
Hydra 2.6: I'd rather kill myself, but if purgatory were choosing between WARI and Hydra 2.6, I'd rather tune the Hydra.
Hydra 2.7: Hydra, hands down, no contest.
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Old 08-10-2012, 08:50 PM   #38
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Is 2.7 really that much better?
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Old 08-10-2012, 09:56 PM   #39
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spikes:

The Autronic and Adaptronic have asynchronous fuel enrichment. This helps with tip-in throttle sharpness.
The AEM, Hydra, and MS do not.
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Old 08-10-2012, 09:57 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
Is 2.7 really that much better?
It's an entirely new software package and it is quite a bit better, although still nowhere near as good as AEMTuner or TunerStudio.

I prefer the AEM software over the MS software, but it's probably just because I am more comfortable with it.
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