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Old 04-18-2014, 12:03 PM   #41
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I have not driven a 400hp+ miata. My "passenger seat experience" was limited to an ls swapped miata. Granted it's a profoundly different setup then a high psi 4cylinder. I'm going to try my best to take your criticisms with a grain of salt. I'm new to miata's. Fairly new to Mazda in general for that matter. Only other Mazda I've owned besides my 06' and 08' mazda3 was an 88' rx7 convertible with a tII swap. So be gentle. I appreciate the "editing" of my build thread though. The 1.8 vs 1.6 comparison has been beaten to death. This early in my build, most of the parts I've purchased thus far are compatible with either motor. Tracking one down would prove difficult but not impossible. Keep it coming guys, criticism is always welcome.
An LS swapped miata at 400hp is a bit different then a 450hp turbo 1.6. Like the LS one would be fun on the street, the 1.6l turbo would not be fun. The LS miata will spin tires at 1.5k rpms in any gear, the 1.6l turbo will spin tires at 6500rpms.

We are shitting on you because you are choosing the absolute worst way to build a miata motor. Go buy a 1.8 VVT motor for about $1000 on ebay and start with that. You will have a much easier time of making power, spool whatever huge *** turbo you get faster, and have a much better mid range. Honestly what you should do is just call Savington at TSE and buy one of his built bottom ends, then have him mate a 949Racing CNC VVT head onto the bottom. You will then have a build motor that will take whatever you want to throw at it done correctly by some of the people who know how to build high hp miata motors in the nation.

Also here is your eggplant.
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Old 04-18-2014, 12:05 PM   #42
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Don't know what all the bitching is about. Beyond some herrafrushness in that mod list at this guy is not asking how many power cards he needs, can it be done with a MP62 for low-end TQ, if Hypers reroute is any good, how much boost the stock sway bars are good for etc.

OP. I think most of the doubts in here probably come from the fact that we don't think you have/will spend the necessary funds to make this happen. I have built several perfect mod lists in my head and actually done none of them.

Suggestion: Check out EFR series turbos.

Related: I doubt you are going to need a 44MM wastegate. The 1.6 is going to be working pretty hard to spool a large turbo that presumably has a pretty wide open AR. Your back pressure on a tubular mani is not going to be an issue and a 38MM Tial will probably be fine and perhaps make packaging easier. OR, just get the damned EFR with integrated wastegate and BOV, and see how that goes.

Torsen diff means you don't have a clutch type diff. Clutch type diff means you don't have a torsen. They are different types of diff. 3.9 gears are a good idea with either.

EDIT:
Or just do what the above poster suggested. Spend less than 45K by quite a margin, and save your sanity. That's probably the best suggestion ever.

ACTUALLY. Now that I think on it, the best suggestion ever is to get in on the group buy of the new K24 swap stuff and build a monster K-powered Miata. Seriously. If you want something unique or whatever, that's a way, way, way better path than a 1.6.
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Old 04-18-2014, 12:10 PM   #43
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Build a 500hp F2T Miata just to **** Concealer off.
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Old 04-18-2014, 12:16 PM   #44
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Probably should have clarified on the differential set up. I have a spare clutch type LSD from my previous rx7 build. I intend to purchase a separate 1.8 Torsen rear end then have to option to test out either setup. I understand there is a difference in steer-in while cornering with a clutch type over Torsen. Half the fun of building a high horsepower car for me is assembling as much of it as I can. If I had the skills required and the equipment I would do the machining as well. I'll look into TSE for the short block and see if I can come up with anything locally in the way of purchasing a 1.8. Is there any presented difficulty with tuning the VVT portion? The closest I've come to something similar was the v-tec timing on the 08' civic si I had a while back. Apples to oranges I'm sure. I also wasn't aware that the Borg Warner efr turbos had the bov built in along with the wastegate. Would surely simplify a lot of the routing for those components separately.
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Old 04-18-2014, 12:27 PM   #45
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even if you miraculously did build this unicorn of a car
all it would do is spin wheels and scare the bejezus out of you

FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE HERE, BRO
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Old 04-18-2014, 12:31 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redheadedstepchild View Post
Is there any presented difficulty with tuning the VVT portion?
Not terribly. Plenty of people here have done it with good results. Some Most modern Megasquirt options have the ability to control VVT natively.
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Old 04-18-2014, 12:38 PM   #47
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I'm actually surprised this thread is getting serious responses when this guy is literally a textbook example of a n00b jumping in saying he wants a 450whp miata.

The likelihood of even a proper 350whp build happening here is slim.
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Old 04-18-2014, 12:40 PM   #48
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It probably wouldn't be getting these responses if he were planning a 1.8 build. But we're always eager to correct someone who is wrong.
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Old 04-18-2014, 12:42 PM   #49
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The only reason I am continuing to reply is because he isn't reacting all indignantly and is actually asking questions. I mean, he at least came here with a megasquirt in his build list and a lot of his build is decent.
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Old 04-18-2014, 12:42 PM   #50
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Yeah, gotta give him that: at least he's not getting butthurt.

Perhaps there is still hope
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Old 04-18-2014, 01:09 PM   #51
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Willingness to learn is what creates success. That and the ability to take critique and see the positive notes inside of it. I really appreciate all the input I've gotten this far. Everybody was a "noob" as some point. Obviously there is a lot of room for improvement to get to an enjoyable power level efficiently. And from what's been explained so far a lot cheaper then I had originally though. Hell, main caps and cams removed from the equation save around a grand at least
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Old 04-18-2014, 01:12 PM   #52
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How do you propose to build a 6 speed from a Miata to hold 450whp? That hasn't been done yet either.

Yes to modern engineering and EFR turbo that can make 450whp and still spool really well. No to old-tech incorrectly sized turbo with quick spool valve.

Seriously, the things Leafy corrected in his post were pretty much spot-on. You can give or take on the 1.8vvt versus the 1.6 if you really want. The injectors will need to be bigger than 1000cc and better than DW to make it idle well.
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Old 04-18-2014, 01:13 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Redheadedstepchild View Post
I have a spare clutch type LSD from my previous rx7 build. I intend to purchase a separate 1.8 Torsen rear end then have to option to test out either setup
why would you ruin a good torsen in this manner?
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Old 04-18-2014, 01:14 PM   #54
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Soviets 6 speed seems to be holding together and was run at more than 450hp. I dont think its a massive deal as long as you keep your foot out of it in 4th gear and have some mechanical empathy.
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Old 04-18-2014, 01:15 PM   #55
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Once you get away from "spec sheet racing" and actually go off of what is enjoyable you will find that you will find fare more enjoyment out of far lower numbers. It's good to have goals but it's also important to know what those goals represent and what you will be giving up if you attain them. You might not be any happier hitting a magic number.
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Old 04-18-2014, 01:21 PM   #56
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The only reason I am continuing to reply is because he isn't reacting all indignantly and is actually asking questions. I mean, he at least came here with a megasquirt in his build list and a lot of his build is decent.
This is why I have given real advice along with a ribbing. He came in with a somewhat decent list of what he wanted to do. After us tearing it apart he has stuck around and not gotten upset. So while a newb, he is at least one with thick skin. Honestly if he makes the changes that we have recommended he will be well on his way to having a good setup.
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Old 04-18-2014, 01:26 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by thenuge26 View Post
Build a 500hp F2T Miata just to **** Concealer off.


Why? I'll still **** all over it. People have done pretty much 500hp through a stock F2T. I'm building my motor. You think i'm going to stop at 500?
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Old 04-18-2014, 01:27 PM   #58
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bro you better get on that then bro, you've been talking about crazy hp glory for months now
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Old 04-18-2014, 01:27 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
Soviets 6 speed seems to be holding together and was run at more than 450hp. I dont think its a massive deal as long as you keep your foot out of it in 4th gear and have some mechanical empathy.

He also said in his thread that he doesn't really drive it because he's waiting for a transmission that WILL hold the power.

Quote:
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bro you better get on that then bro, you've been talking about crazy hp glory for months now

Yeah, it'll be another year or two of talking, too. I'm busy with other things. I have this stupid built BP turbo Miata to deal with first.

I AM testing a built F2T head for things shortly, though. Going in for a valve job this weekend. So don't worry princess, F2T power will happen sooner rather than later. It'll just be in FWD form. I'm not made of money, and if i was, i wouldn't be ******* with Mazdas.
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Old 04-18-2014, 01:30 PM   #60
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Too late.


This is the best thing i've ever seen.
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