The Definitive "VVT swap into 90-97 chassis" Megathread. - Page 3 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Go Back  Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats. > Performance & Tuning > Engine Performance
Reload this Page >

The Definitive "VVT swap into 90-97 chassis" Megathread.

Engine Performance This section is for discussion on all engine building related questions.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

The Definitive "VVT swap into 90-97 chassis" Megathread.

Old 08-28-2014, 03:06 PM
  #41  
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Leafy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NH
Posts: 9,328
Total Cats: 83
Default

If you have a standalone you probably have it wired so the ecu drives the tach even on the 94.
Leafy is offline  
Old 08-28-2014, 03:17 PM
  #42  
Cpt. Slow
iTrader: (25)
 
curly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon City, OR
Posts: 12,593
Total Cats: 615
Default

That's what we're finding on our MSM swapped '92. In order to have a tach with '01+ coils, you need to have a tach output pin on the ECU to go to the cluster.

FYI: For those of you running Gen1 MSPNPs, DIYautotune will do the mod for a tach output pin for $75 once you ship it to them. I believe the schematic for a DIY circuit is floating around here somewhere.

I'm fairly certain Gen2 MSPNPs already have a tach output pin.
curly is online now  
Old 08-28-2014, 08:33 PM
  #43  
Cpt. Slow
iTrader: (25)
 
curly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon City, OR
Posts: 12,593
Total Cats: 615
Default

Note: this thread is meant for standalone ECU replacements, such as MS and AEM.

For those of you wanting to use a stock ECU, please keep the discussion in this thread:

https://www.miataturbo.net/engine-pe...athread-80666/

But to sum up: stock ECU won't see a tach signal with '01+ coils, and it'll kill itself within a few seconds.

Remember, DON'T discuss those issues here.
curly is online now  
Old 08-28-2014, 10:12 PM
  #44  
Ben
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (33)
 
Ben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: atlanta-ish
Posts: 12,651
Total Cats: 111
Default

Originally Posted by curly View Post
FYI: For those of you running Gen1 MSPNPs, DIYautotune will do the mod for a tach output pin for $75 once you ship it to them. I believe the schematic for a DIY circuit is floating around here somewhere.

I'm fairly certain Gen2 MSPNPs already have a tach output pin.
Only 90-93 Gen1 MSPNPs do not have a built in tach output. The Gen 1 94-95 and 96-97 already have it built in, as do all models Gen2 and Pro PNPs.

Example tach circuit for 90-93 Gen 1 is shown here:
MS1/Extra Hardware Manual

In most cases, I'd recommend purchasing an aftermarket tach adapter before sending an ECU in to be modified. Cost would be about the same or less and would eliminate down time.
__________________
DIYAutoTune.com Tech Support
10AE-T|BEGi S4|MSPNP-Pro EMS|Enthuza Duals|6UL|Etc
Track Rat|2001|VVT|MS3-Pro EMS|Enthuza|Exocet in Progress

Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
Buy an MSPNP Pro, you'll feel better.
Ben is offline  
Old 09-04-2014, 10:09 AM
  #45  
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (6)
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Broken Arrow,Ok
Posts: 1,126
Total Cats: 56
Default

In the event that you plan to keep your 94-95 block and simply update to the VVT head, is it still recommended that I update to the crank trigger setup instead of the CAS that is on the original head? I certainly understand that new ignition (in my case I will upgrade to COPS) and VVT actuation will need to be wired in. The throttle body update is suggested, but not a have to. I'm starting to add up the wiring harness needed for the pigtails along with all the sensors and the difference in cost from just getting an entire 01+ engine gets smaller and smaller. Again, this is all assuming the use of MS EM.
__________________

TheBandit's VVT EFR Build
95 Miata 01 VVT Motor EFR 6258 ARTech Axial Bottom Mount Square Top 15x9 Jong's 245 Maxxis
98 Long Travel Tacoma BroDozer
99 Jeep Cherokee Offroad Beater
01 Miata AutoX Car
02 Bugeye Wagon Project Car
07 335i Fun Daily

Check Out Our Parts Threads and Online Store!
Coolant Reroute and EGR Block-Off Parts Thread
LSx D585 Coil Bracket Kit Pre-Order Thread

Hawley Performance Online Store
TheBandit is offline  
Old 09-04-2014, 10:38 AM
  #46  
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,378
Total Cats: 60
Default

No way to control VVT without the crank sensor, so why keep the CAS?
NiklasFalk is offline  
Old 09-04-2014, 10:45 AM
  #47  
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Leafy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NH
Posts: 9,328
Total Cats: 83
Default

And you'll basically need to replace the oil pump in order to get the crank trigger on a 94-95. IIRC the boss is there so if you're a ******* judo master with a hand drill you could drill and tap it maybe.
Leafy is offline  
Old 09-04-2014, 12:21 PM
  #48  
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (6)
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Broken Arrow,Ok
Posts: 1,126
Total Cats: 56
Default

So I might as well just get a complete VVT engine and stop trying to gather the parts to make it work with my 95 block. I'm still educating myself on the differences required to work with VVT. Thanks for the assistance.
__________________

TheBandit's VVT EFR Build
95 Miata 01 VVT Motor EFR 6258 ARTech Axial Bottom Mount Square Top 15x9 Jong's 245 Maxxis
98 Long Travel Tacoma BroDozer
99 Jeep Cherokee Offroad Beater
01 Miata AutoX Car
02 Bugeye Wagon Project Car
07 335i Fun Daily

Check Out Our Parts Threads and Online Store!
Coolant Reroute and EGR Block-Off Parts Thread
LSx D585 Coil Bracket Kit Pre-Order Thread

Hawley Performance Online Store
TheBandit is offline  
Old 09-04-2014, 10:07 PM
  #49  
Supporting Vendor
Thread Starter
iTrader: (31)
 
Savington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 15,061
Total Cats: 1,853
Default

You also get an extra point of compression. Lots of good reasons to just source a full longblock.

Updated the OP to include the answer to your question.
__________________
Trackspeed Engineering
High-Performance Turbo Specialists - Sunnyvale, CA - 650-701-7223 - Email us!
Originally Posted by codrus View Post
Basically I've come over to the camp of "If something is a reliability problem on the track, just ask Andrew and do what he says".
Savington is online now  
Old 09-06-2014, 12:09 PM
  #50  
Senior Member
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 583
Total Cats: 4
Default

Originally Posted by Savington View Post

1994-1997 coils:
+12v:
94-97: Blue
01-05: Black/White

trigger cyl 1/4:
94-97: brown
01-05: brown/white

trigger cyl 2/3:
94-97: brown/yellow
01-05: black/yellow

ground:
94-97, 01-05: black
1999-2000 coils:
+12v: Black/white

trigger cyl 1/4: Brown/Yellow

trigger cyl 2/3: Brown

ground: Black

Now, do we have to put capacitor as NB2 OEM harness ?
joyrider is offline  
Old 09-08-2014, 01:04 PM
  #51  
Supporting Vendor
Thread Starter
iTrader: (31)
 
Savington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 15,061
Total Cats: 1,853
Default

99-00 coils are garbage, you're much better off retaining your stock 1.6/1.8 coils if you are doing a BP4W swap. I specifically left 99-00 coil info off the OP for that reason.
__________________
Trackspeed Engineering
High-Performance Turbo Specialists - Sunnyvale, CA - 650-701-7223 - Email us!
Originally Posted by codrus View Post
Basically I've come over to the camp of "If something is a reliability problem on the track, just ask Andrew and do what he says".
Savington is online now  
Old 09-08-2014, 05:58 PM
  #52  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 133
Total Cats: -42
Default

Or you can just go with the Fab9 COP's.
my97miata is offline  
Reply
Leave a poscat -1 Leave a negcat
Old 09-08-2014, 06:09 PM
  #53  
Supporting Vendor
Thread Starter
iTrader: (31)
 
Savington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 15,061
Total Cats: 1,853
Default

Or you can use the perfectly adequate stock ignition system, vs. upgrading to a system with no benefits.
__________________
Trackspeed Engineering
High-Performance Turbo Specialists - Sunnyvale, CA - 650-701-7223 - Email us!
Originally Posted by codrus View Post
Basically I've come over to the camp of "If something is a reliability problem on the track, just ask Andrew and do what he says".
Savington is online now  
Old 09-08-2014, 06:36 PM
  #54  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 53
Total Cats: 5
Default

Originally Posted by my97miata View Post
Or you can just go with the Fab9 COP's.
What I did. They just look purty. Stock bottom end and they're fine, but testing DIYauto has done shows they're not ideal for big boost.

Originally Posted by Savington View Post
Or you can use the perfectly adequate stock ignition system, vs. upgrading to a system with no benefits.
They fit in the hole. Every double meaning intended.
harrybeachdog is offline  
Old 09-08-2014, 06:44 PM
  #55  
Supporting Vendor
Thread Starter
iTrader: (31)
 
Savington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 15,061
Total Cats: 1,853
Default

Stock coils fit in the hole too...
__________________
Trackspeed Engineering
High-Performance Turbo Specialists - Sunnyvale, CA - 650-701-7223 - Email us!
Originally Posted by codrus View Post
Basically I've come over to the camp of "If something is a reliability problem on the track, just ask Andrew and do what he says".
Savington is online now  
Old 09-08-2014, 06:49 PM
  #56  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 53
Total Cats: 5
Default

I thought the VVT vc had smaller holes for the wires?
harrybeachdog is offline  
Old 09-08-2014, 06:51 PM
  #57  
Supporting Vendor
Thread Starter
iTrader: (31)
 
Savington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 15,061
Total Cats: 1,853
Default

It does, and the stock VVT coils fit into the VVT holes. The 99-00 has the same holes as the 90-97, so you would just use stock 90-97 coils instead of the 99-00 coils. If you're going to go aftermarket, skip the fab 9 parts and go straight to an LS2 Truck coil setup.
  • If you are swapping a BP4W into a 90-97, use stock 90-97 coils and wires (preferably the 94-97 coils)
  • If you are swapping a BP6D (VVT) into a 90-97, use VVT coils and wires and wire them per the original post's instructions
__________________
Trackspeed Engineering
High-Performance Turbo Specialists - Sunnyvale, CA - 650-701-7223 - Email us!
Originally Posted by codrus View Post
Basically I've come over to the camp of "If something is a reliability problem on the track, just ask Andrew and do what he says".
Savington is online now  
Old 09-08-2014, 06:52 PM
  #58  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 53
Total Cats: 5
Default

Attached Thumbnails The Definitive "VVT swap into 90-97 chassis" Megathread.-the_more_you_know_banner.jpg  
harrybeachdog is offline  
Old 09-08-2014, 07:55 PM
  #59  
Ben
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (33)
 
Ben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: atlanta-ish
Posts: 12,651
Total Cats: 111
Default

Originally Posted by harrybeachdog View Post
What I did. They just look purty. Stock bottom end and they're fine, but testing DIYauto has done shows they're not ideal for big boost.
A 3rd party has tested the coils; we have not. The 3rd party test was not flattering. I have no horse in the race, other than the vendor was blaming my ECU for the troubles with his product.
__________________
DIYAutoTune.com Tech Support
10AE-T|BEGi S4|MSPNP-Pro EMS|Enthuza Duals|6UL|Etc
Track Rat|2001|VVT|MS3-Pro EMS|Enthuza|Exocet in Progress

Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
Buy an MSPNP Pro, you'll feel better.
Ben is offline  
Old 09-08-2014, 08:52 PM
  #60  
Senior Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Beaverton, OR
Posts: 762
Total Cats: 31
Default

Originally Posted by Ben View Post
Only 90-93 Gen1 MSPNPs do not have a built in tach output. The Gen 1 94-95 and 96-97 already have it built in, as do all models Gen2 and Pro PNPs.

Example tach circuit for 90-93 Gen 1 is shown here:
MS1/Extra Hardware Manual

In most cases, I'd recommend purchasing an aftermarket tach adapter before sending an ECU in to be modified. Cost would be about the same or less and would eliminate down time.
Ben,
My 92 is the one curly mentioned, would you happen to have a link to an aftermarket tach adapter that would work for such an application?
greddygalant is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: The Definitive "VVT swap into 90-97 chassis" Megathread.


Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

© 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.