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Old 02-24-2010, 07:28 PM   #61
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Tach works (spark output=MS CAS input check).
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Tach does move when cranking.
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I do not get tach info in MT, and dash tach does not move.
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all but the tach.
I am very confused. Is the tach on the dash (and in Megatune) giving any indication or isn't it?
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Old 02-24-2010, 07:43 PM   #62
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I thought the dash tach was moving...but it was snowing...may have just been me shivering.

Now that I'm at home doing proper diagnosis I am not getting a signal in either dash tach or MegaTune.

Sorry for the confusion.

I did get spark grounded to head by sticking screwdriver into COPS while cranking.
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Old 02-24-2010, 08:08 PM   #63
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I am not getting a signal in either dash tach or MegaTune.
(...)
I did get spark grounded to head by sticking screwdriver into COPS while cranking.
This is me right now:





Ok, let's step back.



Forget about whether or not you're getting spark at the plugs. You think you are getting spark, but you're not because you're actually insane. I know this because the purple-and-green-striped penguin which has been getting high with you guys every Thursday in the mens room down at the bus station told me. I trust him, and don't for a second try to deny that he exists.


With the laptop connected to the MS, are you getting any sign of actual communication at all? Do the temp gauges show actual ambient temp? In the "Realtime" display, do you get a plausible BattV indication? Do you get a MAP reading of around 100kPa when resting, and very slightly less when cranking?

If all of the above answer "yes" then you almost certainly have a faulty CAS, faulty (or damaged) CAS wiring, or a problem internal to the MS on one of the two CAS inputs.

Gimme a log of you cranking.

If any of the above answer "no", then we're back to general electrical.

I want to re-emphasize, however, that is the MS itself is working (communicating with the laptop), and assuming that you haven't made any weird electrical mods and you are taking power for the MS from the red/white wire at position 1B of the stock, ECU connector, then I am 99.44% certain that this is not a blown fuse.

Again, measure to see if you've got +12 from one of the injector plugs' white/red wire to ground. I cannot over-state how important this one simple test is. While you're down there, check the white/red wire (+) at the CAS relative to the black/grn wire (-) at the CAS, and also the blue wire (+) at the igniter connector relative to the black wire (-) at the igniter connector.

If the 80A Main fuse were bad, you'd have almost no power anywhere.

If the 30A INJ fuse were bad, you'd have nothing on the contacts of the main relay, which is what feeds the white/red wire.

If the 15A Engine fuse was bad, there'd be nothing to drive the coil of the main relay, and again, no power on white/red.

There just aren't any other fuses that are relevant to the engine management system.

If the Main Relay were bad, again, you'd have no power on the white / red wire.


Check that damn wire.
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Old 02-24-2010, 08:33 PM   #64
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Check that damn wire.
Yes, MS gauges are working. MS is communicating just fine. Like I said, I reloaded my map...no change, but heard controller beep after a few seconds, which is normal.

Coolant and intake air temp both show ambient...58*.

I get no rpm signal, and no movement on the injector ms gauge...zero cranking pulsewidth.

I did get spark...not insane...it hurt holmes.

I'm way beyond thinking it's a fuse, but people kept asking.

Checked the damn wire...I get 12V at the injectors (red/white to ground), and 12V at CAS (red/white to ground). I no longer have an ignitor, but can check the connector if that's what you mean.

I've been kind of suspect of the CAS.

Will work on datalog.


Oh...and chill out. Trying to do a LOT of things at the same, which is why I'm asking for help. Two exams this week, project due at the end of the week, taking care of daughter is working late, and now car problems. I put in all the work swapping the motor this past weekend so that I could focus on school this week. So much for that.

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Forget about whether or not you're getting spark at the plugs. You think you are getting spark, but you're not because you're actually insane. I know this because the purple-and-green-striped penguin which has been getting high with you guys every Thursday in the mens room down at the bus station told me. I trust him, and don't for a second try to deny that he exists.
lollers
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Old 02-24-2010, 08:36 PM   #65
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Oh...and chill out.
Sorry, didn't mean to give that impression. There is a great need for a [sarcasm] font on these forums. My last post should ideally be imagined to be spoken in the voice of Winston Wolf.


One last thing- you will get one initial spark out of the coils when you first power them on. Nature of the beast with the original design of the MS spark output circuit (discussed, with solution, here.)

If you're getting repeated sparks on cranking, could be an intermittent connection at the keyswitch, could just be that system voltage is getting dragged down and the coils are false triggering. But I can guarantee you that the MS isn't commanding them to fire.
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Old 02-24-2010, 08:39 PM   #66
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Sorry, didn't mean to give that impression. There is a great need for a [sarcasm] font on these forums. My last post should ideally be imagined to be spoken in the voice of Winston Wolf.
I realized that after I read it at normal speed when daughter wasn't tugging on my elbow, and I caught the penguin story.

Thanks for the help.
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Old 02-24-2010, 08:51 PM   #67
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Ok...gave daughter some cantaloupe and put on iCarly and she let me go out to garage long enough to try a datalog.

Unfortunately now battery is dead again.

Will go back on charger and will try again in the morning.
Attached Files
File Type: xls fueldeliveryprobcranking1.xls (21.0 KB, 57 views)
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Old 02-24-2010, 08:53 PM   #68
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One last thing- you will get one initial spark out of the coils when you first power them on. Nature of the beast with the original design of the MS spark output circuit (discussed, with solution, here.)

If you're getting repeated sparks on cranking, could be an intermittent connection at the keyswitch, could just be that system voltage is getting dragged down and the coils are false triggering. But I can guarantee you that the MS isn't commanding them to fire.


hmm...

I'm confused as well. Didn't seem very intermittent...in fact very regular.

Maybe it's voltage related. Possibly getting worse as battery is dying. Will let it charge overnight and retry some of these tests with a strong battery.


EDIT: If I get anything out of this ordeal it's a few tools every man should have. Father in law stole my compression tester a few years back, so picked one up today, and I can't think of any reason not to own a battery charger, in fact have kicked myself a few times for not having one.

Thanks to swap over weekend I also now have engine hoist, engine stand, two torque wrenches, calipers and a few other special tools. I feel like a real man now. Good thing I'm not parting this thing out now that I've got a fitting garage for it.
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Old 02-24-2010, 09:49 PM   #69
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Gosped, is this the semi-built engine, or just the dirty takeout that hustlefucker gave you? Or, are they one and the same?

Good luck, broham. If I have any problem with the built weapon I have yet to pick up, I will go "Falling Down" on a ************. Wait, maybe that's not funny on this board?
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Old 02-24-2010, 11:26 PM   #70
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This is hustler's old beater engine. It looks like it still has plenty of life left in it...regardless of what my CAS is throwing at it.

This is all speculation at this point, but I'm starting to blame my CAS for the last motor failure as well. I was getting audible knock where there shouldn't have been. This coincided with the oil pressure gauge bouncing around, which I also noted for just a second before it shut down yesterday. Thus why I thought the motor was toast. Looks like it held up to a little det, but I'm only at 12psi on a small turbo.

Semi-built motor no longer in the plans...just doing a light rebuild with some port and polish work to get the most out of the Tbird compressor. Making enough power to need forged rods would require a custom compressor upgrade/rebuild, and a six speed etc.

I also realized after this last weekend's work that I don't wish to do another motor swap anytime soon. I'm also only touching the suspension 1 more time. Ready to be done with this thing.
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Old 02-24-2010, 11:38 PM   #71
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I'm also only touching the suspension 1 more time. Ready to be done with this thing.
I give that statement about 3 weeks till you change your mind, starting from the moment you finish sorting this problem out. When we're stuck working on it, we wish it was just done. When it's running fine, we're contemplating what to do next.
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Old 02-24-2010, 11:42 PM   #72
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I'm super serial. LESS BOoST. I unhooked my wastegate while my injectors were being rebuilt and ended those two weeks with a reaaly good semi NA map. Try it, sounds like it would actually let you start enjoying it. For a 75 mile commute you don't need 200hp.
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Old 02-25-2010, 12:21 AM   #73
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Ok...gave daughter some cantaloupe and put on iCarly and she let me go out to garage long enough to try a datalog.
I have your answer.

It's the CAS.

I can't tell for sure whether the whole CAS is dead, or even whether the problem is the CAS itself, the wiring between it and the MS, or the circuit inside the MS that receives it. But I can tell you that the MS isn't seeing the "second trigger" input, also known as CMP, which on your car is a yellow wire with a blue stripe that goes to position 2G at the stock ECU connector.

On the log, portc is stuck at 19 the whole time. Decoded into binary, that's 00010011 (MSB first). The first two bits, which are the two 1's on the right, tell me that the two spark outputs remain off the whole time (high, from the CPU's perspective), and the fifth bit (from the right) is also stuck high the whole time, meaning that no second triggers were ever received.


It's possible that the primary trigger may be coming in. That pin is an IRQ, so it's not specifically logged like the others, but the "engine" byte does go from zero (00000000) to three (00000011) for a few seconds, meaning that the MS believes it's in Crank and Run mode. I don't think it would do that unless it were receiving primary triggers, but I can't swear to it as I've never tested this condition.



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Unfortunately now battery is dead again.
Yeah, I can see that from the log. Battv is down to 8.1 during cranking.

I see two resets in the log. Was that you switching the key off and on?
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Old 02-25-2010, 12:44 AM   #74
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Everything about that post just kicked my brain's *** and made me really, really excited about this forum, my car, and my plans. I can't tell you why. But it did.
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Old 02-25-2010, 12:51 AM   #75
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acutally, check you cams while you are at it. I acutally wonder if the intake cam is now two intake cams.
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Old 02-25-2010, 01:20 AM   #76
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Matter can not be created or destroyed!
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Old 02-25-2010, 01:56 AM   #77
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Just for ***** and giggles, could you perhaps get and post a log of your input triggers? I'm just interested to see what they look like in a situation like this.
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Old 02-25-2010, 08:27 AM   #78
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I'm about to get a better log, checking for what Joe pointed out.

Should crank a while since it charged over night.

I will also remove my CAS cover and see if the assembly rotates to test Brainy's theory. I have extra intake cams, just hope that this one fractured cleanly and didn't do any journal damage.
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Old 02-25-2010, 08:53 AM   #79
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If the intake cam broke somewhere past cylinder #1 wouldn't you have compression test numbers that were more uneven? I'd still check it, but that is my logic for why it is unlikely.
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Old 02-25-2010, 10:52 AM   #80
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True^^^

It appears all intake valves are opening.

I'm finally feeling better (think I got food poisoning yesterday, whole night of dry heaving and *****), so will get a datalog.

I also have a spare CAS. Every Miata owner should have one, and mine should have been in the trunk.
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