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Old 03-03-2010, 11:30 AM   #101
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Here's where I am on the list of things to check/replace:

1. Check cam timing, and rotate intake back a tooth if off.

COMPLETE

Scott was right, the intake cam was advanced a tooth. I'm not sure if this killed the CAS, or if the CAS loosing the second trigger caused motor to stumble and timing belt to jump...but it was off either way. Since I was in there this morning I just replaced my intake cam gear with the FM adjustable I've had sitting there forever. Now it's right on.

Still no start. Starter spinning weaker than ever despite full charge on new battery.


2. Check ignition timing accuracy while cranking.


I knew I'd need to set base timing again after replacing the CAS, but it's kind of hard to do if the car doesn't start and idle. Scott believes timing's probably so far off it's making it impossible to start as well. I'll have to get someone to crank it while I check and see if it's anywhere close...and if not adjust trigger angle/move CAS around until I can get it in the neighborhood, and fine tune when it runs.


3. Replace starter


I was holding off on throwing more parts at the problem until I verified everything else twice, but the more I try and crank the slow this thing spins, and everything else is checking out.

Luckily johnwag has a spare from a track car he's nice enough to send me (Texascrew hospitality ftmfw). When it arrives I'll slap it on and see if we don't get somewhere.


EDIT:

4. Clean ignition switch.

http://www.miata.net/garage/CleaningIgnitionSwitch.html

I think I'll try this before swapping starters to see if it helps, but I'm still pretty sure I've just worn down the starter with excessive cranking recently. Battery and starter were probably tired, but fine as long as I only need to call on them for cranking twice daily for 2 seconds. Trying to get a swapped motor with a dead CAS going was a much tougher task on them.

Last edited by gospeed81; 03-03-2010 at 11:59 AM.
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Old 03-05-2010, 11:22 AM   #102
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CAR RUNS!!!!


Thank you everyone for the help.

Here is what I had to do:

-Replace CAS
-Replace battery
-reset cam timing
-reset base timing


I will still replace the starter as it *barely* turns over at all, but I got the timing dialed in enough just by watching it crank that it finally caught.

Motor runs like a top, but now I've got some odd detonation under load that is probably ECU related. Everything else is new, motor, CAS etc...but I'm now observing the knock that likely killed the last motor (I've since cleared my brother of guilt, and thanked him for his help). I thought that maybe the old CAS started "floating" around the timing at high rpms, but the new one does the exact same, and it's load related, not rpm related.

My theory on the failure last week was that the CAS died, motor hiccuped and threw the timing belt a tooth over the intake cam, and during repetitive cranking I found that my battery and starter were weak.

Anyhow, it's very nice to be driving my car again.
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Old 03-05-2010, 11:29 AM   #103
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Now is the time to look back and laugh.

Congrats on getting it running!
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Old 03-06-2010, 10:15 AM   #104
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First real drive (150miles) went pretty well yesterday...but I can not get past half throttle at all without experiencing audible detonation.


The old motor was doing this when it was in it's death thralls...but I assumed it was due to low compression problems and still trying to make boost. After my CAS died two weeks ago I also imagined that played into it some.

Now I've got a new motor with good compression, and a new CAS. I've also set base timing meticulously.

My fuel map is extremely rich. I set it that way, 105% of what I was running, since I had a MLV "rpm limit" problem when trying to analyze a datalog yesterday morning.

I am still running water injection, but it comes on at 8-9psi, and I usually let up before then when I see my oil pressure gauge start dancing around (built-in knock sensor). When I am brave enough to push that hard the WI onset does nothing to quell the knock. I have checked system for blockage etc.

Timing map is Braineacks, dialed back 15%, so pretty conservative. I'm going to dial it back more, and possibly just dial back base timing since the knock is at pretty much any rpm, anything over 5psi.




I'm open to other suggestions.

This morning the thought occured to me that I could be having an injector problem. I simply removed the whole intake manifold from old motor and attached it to the new one. Besides the ECU and turbo hardware, this is the ONLY part of the setup that is the same.

Any good way to check sort of a temp gun on the runners or trying to read plugs?
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Old 03-06-2010, 10:47 AM   #105
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you cleaned the injetors before i thougt? just to be sure you reverified your base timming with MS via the trigger angle right? Have you also verified your boost pressure i assume you are going of logs etc but a second source of confirmation wouldnt hurt you.

Could hustlers motor have had so much carbon build up on it since he is such a ***** when it comes to driving that it noticably increased your compression? This is what i would think.
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Old 03-06-2010, 10:56 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnamx-5 View Post
you cleaned the injetors before i thougt?
Nope, supposedly previous owner had them cleaned, which is as sure as me getting a raise this month.

Quote:
Originally Posted by magnamx-5 View Post
just to be sure you reverified your base timming with MS via the trigger angle right?
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by magnamx-5 View Post
Have you also verified your boost pressure i assume you are going of logs etc but a second source of confirmation wouldnt hurt you.
No, but I know it's low boost from the way it drives, no way 14psi or something is going to feel like 5psi. MBC and wastegate rod were set for 10psi max before. I'm getting detonation well before then.

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Could hustlers motor have had so much carbon build up on it since he is such a ***** when it comes to driving that it noticably increased your compression? This is what i would think.
This is remotely possible as this motor's never seen boost. It was his n/a track motor. Tops of pistons were nothing crazy though, equivalent to the other three 1.6Ls I've had.

And even if so, would carbon deposits rear their ugly head at such low manifold pressure?
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Old 03-06-2010, 11:55 AM   #107
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depends on how much it effectivly raised your compression and how many potential hotspots you have. Have you tried running NA with the WG disconnected and made sure it isnt a motor issue?
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Old 03-06-2010, 12:11 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnamx-5 View Post
depends on how much it effectivly raised your compression and how many potential hotspots you have. Have you tried running NA with the WG disconnected and made sure it isnt a motor issue?
I did for the first test drive I took, and actually just had it turned down to where it would build a little boost, but nothing more than 3psi.

No knock.
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Old 03-06-2010, 12:28 PM   #109
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dude could your fp be dieing? are you still on the stocker? If everything else proves good then mayhaps your fuel pump just doesnt have the nuts to get the job done anymore. My transam did the same ****.
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Old 03-06-2010, 12:29 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnamx-5 View Post
dude could your fp be dieing? are you still on the stocker? If everything else proves good then mayhaps your fuel pump just doesnt have the nuts to get the job done anymore. My transam did the same ****.
If so I'd be going lean across the board.

I'm definitely overtly rich overall.
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Old 03-06-2010, 04:11 PM   #111
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it's not still set on a fixed 10* timing?
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Old 03-06-2010, 04:24 PM   #112
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Quote:
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it's not still set on a fixed 10* timing?
Nope...put it back to -10 when I finished the other day.
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Old 03-08-2010, 01:22 PM   #113
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WI should be cleaning any major deposits out as well, I doubt it is carbon. It would have had the problem before if so.

So what was the deal with that possible object in the cylinder you mentioned like 4 pages back?
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Old 03-08-2010, 01:26 PM   #114
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u ever check your coils cause if you laoded the wrong msq maybe your **** is over heating.
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Old 03-08-2010, 01:34 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparetire View Post

So what was the deal with that possible object in the cylinder you mentioned like 4 pages back?
I think it was a light trick, and probably a funny casting overhang on the side of the spark plug threads. There's nothing bouncing around in there though. Have put almost 300miles on it since with no problems besides a rich fuel map, some high load det, and idle droop (from being overly rich, have VTPS).

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u ever check your coils cause if you laoded the wrong msq maybe your **** is over heating.
Have Toyota COPS...verified dwell settings.

Do you mean overheat the coils? Or hot plugs glowing and causing det?

Spark seems to be fantastic.


This morning I loaded the DIY base map, and dialed base timing back 10* and didn't get any knock...but it was slow, and I mean SLOW in boost. I bumped it back up half of that, and still got knock...so I split the half again, and still get knock. It doesn't go away without being ear-biting, chest slapping retarded.

To this point I've tried three spark maps, Brain's, DIY, and my own which is somewhere between those two. I've also played with base timing in almost the full range of trigger angle addition I'm comfortable with, and both extents of CAS adjustment. If CAS is turned all the way "up" it doesn't knock, but runs like ***.

Right now I'm waiting on det cans from Jeff. If I have to completely feel out my own spark map so be it. As long as I can tune it and it runs well. If I just plain can't go fast I've got some problems.
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Old 03-08-2010, 01:36 PM   #116
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maybe you just need WI to come on earlier.
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Old 03-08-2010, 01:40 PM   #117
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Quote:
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maybe you just need WI to come on earlier.
Been there...done that.

I adjusted it from an initial 4-5psi setting until it didn't bog at onset.

The 3gph nozzle apparently works well at 8-9psi. With this turbo I can still hose out my spark if I do a quick partial to full throttle blip even at that setting.




The whole thing is I shouldn't even NEED WI.
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Old 03-08-2010, 01:45 PM   #118
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It weird that you have that knock now and not before, even with a less aggresive map.

I wonder about cam timing as a result. Maybe playing with the new adjustable gear you put on there will affect things. IIRC retarding an intake cam a tad will bias power higher into the RPM band and reduce cylinder pressure down low at the expense of a bit of TQ.
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Old 03-08-2010, 01:47 PM   #119
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maybe you failed on the cam timing
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Old 03-08-2010, 01:53 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparetire View Post
It weird that you have that knock now and not before, even with a less aggresive map.

I wonder about cam timing as a result. Maybe playing with the new adjustable gear you put on there will affect things. IIRC retarding an intake cam a tad will bias power higher into the RPM band and reduce cylinder pressure down low at the expense of a bit of TQ.


I did have knock before. On the old motor, running a more aggressive timing map.

Brain tried to tell me it was my tune, I insisted it was because my motor was on it's way out and failing in all sorts of ways....well, the problem followed me over to the knew motor apparently.

Timing gear should move power up as your stating.


I am starting to feel like it's all ignition timing related. If I had a bad injector, I would have thrown whichever rod it feeds by now. The pinging sounds even, and not like any sort of single cylinder repetitive sound.

This afternoon I am going to take the crank pulley off, and install my old one from the other motor. This one doesn't have the same notch mine had, and the plastic cover is mangled and hanging over the pulley. I may be chasing ghosts setting my base timing.

It will be much easier to fine-tune that way as opposed to wiggling around the CAS. I'm only doing this since it can be done roadside with just a 12mm wrench, but I couldn't find a sweet spot even though I pulled over five times this morning.
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