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Old 03-12-2010, 05:38 PM   #141
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and your pulley isn't rotating? I know some wear out and the ring starts to slip
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Old 03-12-2010, 11:20 PM   #142
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if it slipped, it wouldn't slip back the other way when he slowed down, would it?

try putting in a small negative number -2? and see if that works. dont have to rev it up fast. you can have your buddy rev it slow, if you see the timing moving more out-of-whack, then tell him to stop revving. from what was posted earlier, i would suspect this to keep your timing more in-line with what it should be. Adjust the number until you've got it dead nuts on.
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Old 03-13-2010, 01:04 AM   #143
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it very well could. That is what i was implying go speed the damn rubber ring that keeps it all together could be mostly shot and your **** could be moving around all loosey goosey hence your not being timed correctly when you set it up or haveing a stable reference.

It does not matter if you made a mark before you started if the mark you make is moving around while the car is running genius. :P Fwiw mine was moving atleast 5 degrees when i changed it.
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Old 03-13-2010, 08:57 AM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnamx-5 View Post
it very well could. That is what i was implying go speed the damn rubber ring that keeps it all together could be mostly shot and your **** could be moving around all loosey goosey hence your not being timed correctly when you set it up or haveing a stable reference.

It does not matter if you made a mark before you started if the mark you make is moving around while the car is running genius. :P Fwiw mine was moving atleast 5 degrees when i changed it.
The CAS o-ring?

Good call, didn't consider that, and do have an oil leak.

I've never seen a rubber ring on the crank...

Thanks for the help though, I thought you hadn't read the last few posts.

fooger...I tried a negative 2...didn't see any change. I had asked first since I didn't know if that field was in ms or degrees.



Car was running good, and I didn't get any knock that I could detect all day. So even though I CAN see it advancing, I'm still safe. I imagine that this coupled with base timing being off made the earlier problem.



I've got new problems though....(this will never end Joe).

My idle started drooping, killing car at every other light, and the car suddenly started running richer.

I checked my TPS wires, still good. Opened up bypass screw a little, still drops when I let off.

On richness, I check the IAT sensor, still plugged in and wired, and it's not THAT rich. The one time I had it go to default temp it was almost undriveable. This is about 1 full point richer in cruise, 1.5 at idle, and 2 (yeah, seeing 10:1) in boost.

I know, I need to datalog. Laptop battery is dead, need a cheap inverter.
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Old 03-13-2010, 09:09 AM   #145
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the electronic IAC valve shouldnt be able to kill the car. There should always be enough running past the IAC screw to at least keep a base idle. Try tightening up the nut behind the steering wheel.

Your car is dying because your spark plugs are fouled from running too rich.

And the rubber in question is on the crank pulley. It can get old, slip a little, and wreak all sorts of undetectable havok on that timing mark. I didn't realize that it could return to its starting position once the engine was shut off - Would make the problem nearly indetectable. The timing mark would be in perfect position for checking TDC, but as soon as you put load on it (started the car) the mark would be way off your desired base timing. Your cam drive pulley would be unaffected, but the timing mark on your crank pulley has changed position when the car is idling. The CAS O-ring wont change how your engine runs - it will only change how soon your "head --> heater core" heater hose explodes.

Last edited by fooger03; 03-13-2010 at 09:26 AM.
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Old 03-13-2010, 09:37 AM   #146
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the electronic IAC valve shouldnt be able to kill the car. There should always be enough running past the IAC screw to at least keep a base idle. Try tightening up the nut behind the steering wheel.
Yeah, I'm trying to remember what else I changed, but this happened on a day I hadn't made any adjustments besides burning a timing map.

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Your car is dying because your spark plugs are fouled from running too rich.
I think you're right, and figured they were related, but the rich condition came one day after the idle droops. They are worse now though. My whole map is a little rich to be safe until I can do datalogs, so maybe one begot the other.

Either way I ordered some NGK BKR7s yesterday, and have to wait since O'Reilly only stocks the 6s. May grab a set of the higher heat range ones just to diagnose.

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And the rubber in question is on the crank pulley. It can get old, slip a little, and wreak all sorts of undetectable havok on that timing mark. I didn't realize that it could return to its starting position once the engine was shut off - Would make the problem nearly indetectable. The CAS O-ring wont change how your engine runs - it will only change how soon your "head --> heater core" heater hose explodes.
I didn't think the CAS could do it...since it's a pretty tight fit for the body, not dependent on the ring.

I will have to check out the pulley. I've never touched the pulley on this one (replacement motor from forum member), but the two times I messed with it on the old motor I don't remember the rubber ring. I've never really looked that harmonic balancer/pulley assembly though.

Does replacing it mean a whole new pulley?
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Old 03-13-2010, 10:11 AM   #147
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cas o ring i mean on your harmonic balancer you dipshit. If that has failed and is moveing around under laod then there is no telling where you realy set your base timing at. It is after all just 2 peices of metal held together with a peice of rubber. For instance if your balancer was slipping before or during your initial calibration of MS you could feasibly be running 20 btdc advance at idle or 0 btdc at idle or even more and you would nvr know the difference until your **** started to explode itself.
One thing that would have confirmed this off hand is the fact that you took a measurement of tdc #1 and marked it on the very same pulley does that mark line up with the stock mark? Yeah it means a whole new pulley they are 85 bucks new from rosenthal mazda etc.
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Old 03-13-2010, 10:14 AM   #148
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wow, not only could I read through Magna's post...it actually made sense and spelled out what I was suggesting.
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Old 03-13-2010, 10:30 AM   #149
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cas o ring i mean on your harmonic balancer you dipshit
Yeah, already determined that, thought you were the one not reading posts, but I missed what all three of ya'll said...

Quote:
Originally Posted by magnamx-5
If that has failed and is moveing around under laod then there is no telling where you realy set your base timing at. It is after all just 2 peices of metal held together with a peice of rubber. For instance if your balancer was slipping before or during your initial calibration of MS you could feasibly be running 20 btdc advance at idle or 0 btdc at idle or even more and you would nvr know the difference until your **** started to explode itself.
One thing that would have confirmed this off hand is the fact that you took a measurement of tdc #1 and marked it on the very same pulley does that mark line up with the stock mark? Yeah it means a whole new pulley they are 85 bucks new from rosenthal mazda etc.
Thanks. This sounds like exactly what is happening.

The mark I made is nowhere close to the OEM mark.

This means that my timing isn't actually advancing with rpm then, explaining why I no longer get knock after reloading my old spark map and setting base timing using TDC. It just means that my base time setting is likely still a little off.

I really didn't want to spend $85 bucks today on this piece of ****...I may try my old pulley off blown motor first. It at least had a reliable mark.

Thanks again, for your help...was just a little vague at first, makes sense reading all of your posts together now (and doing some research).


Here's my plan of attack:

1. Swap pulleys
2. Reset base timing
3. New plugs
4. Trim fuel map leaner, and ease into boost datalogging.
5. See if it runs better



I passed some guy in a red NB yesterday and took off, he caught up with me and was pointing and laughing saying something about smoke or sparks coming out of my exhaust....that can't be good. I stayed out of boost after that, even though the knock box sounded normal. It did start backfiring a lot yesterday.


I'm also waaaay down on power. Almost no wheelspin, and barely kept my nose in front of an auto 350Z driven by a middle-aged lady.
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Old 03-13-2010, 10:53 AM   #150
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i've got a spare 1.8 pulley laying around. i dont suppose it will fit the 1.6? got 120k miles on it, but it was doing quite fine and running 12psi when I replaced it with an ATI. If someone confirms it will fit, I'll drop it in a priority mail box today.
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Old 03-13-2010, 11:16 AM   #151
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i've got a spare 1.8 pulley laying around. i dont suppose it will fit the 1.6? got 120k miles on it, but it was doing quite fine and running 12psi when I replaced it with an ATI. If someone confirms it will fit, I'll drop it in a priority mail box today.
I appreciate the offer, will let you know if it's the problem.
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Old 03-13-2010, 11:55 AM   #152
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I knew you would get it eventualy it isn't a very common problem but atleast now you have a plan of attack fwiw if i still had a good one laying around i would ship it to you free. i do believer the 1.8 and 1.6 ones are interchangeable though.
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Old 03-13-2010, 12:01 PM   #153
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Should be simple enough to try the other one I've got, only five bolts and a belt.

I just don't want to touch timing belt again...

Will let one of ya'll know if the back-up piece gives me the same problems.

I would have never thought of that thing going out...but this was hustler's motor, and I know how hard he is on rubbers.
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Old 03-22-2010, 02:27 PM   #154
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I am sofa king we todd it


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Brain was right, I left my timing at a solid 10* advance. I was shooting sparks out the tailpipe, backfiring, and even melted my damn downpipe, which I just had to pay to get both pipes at the flange welded back on.


Have yet to fix it (at school), but after setting timing using the TDC method I'm sure it will run great. Runs decent now, but was surely cooking the exhaust valves and turbo hardware.

I hate myself.
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Old 03-22-2010, 04:23 PM   #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnamx-5 View Post
It does not matter if you made a mark before you started if the mark you make is moving around while the car is running genius. :P Fwiw mine was moving atleast 5 degrees when i changed it.
Easy to test. Make a mark on the inside aligned with the mark on the outside. Inspect with the light.

Sounds like you're on the right track, though. I'd have never thought of dynamic slippage, but I can visualize it.

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fooger...I tried a negative 2...didn't see any change. I had asked first since I didn't know if that field was in ms or degrees.
It's in ms, as it's there to compensate for electronic latency through the triggering system. That won't change with RPM.



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Brain was right, I left my timing at a solid 10* advance. I was shooting sparks out the tailpipe, backfiring, and even melted my damn downpipe, which I just had to pay to get both pipes at the flange welded back on.
Glad to hear it was something simple.
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Old 03-22-2010, 04:26 PM   #156
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Easy to test. Make a mark on the inside aligned with the mark on the outside. Inspect with the light.

Sounds like you're on the right track, though. I'd have never thought of dynamic slippage, but I can visualize it.

It's in ms, as it's there to compensate for electronic latency through the triggering system. That won't change with RPM.



Glad to hear it was something simple.


Hopefully this fixes it.

My laptop battery is dying, so hopefully it will stay on the 10min it takes me to walk out to the 50 Lot so I can reload corrected map. I would just shut it off, but booting takes just as long.


Either way I'll know tonight, and do a little more poking around to make sure it's all kosher.


Being at a static 10* does explain why my detonation problem magically disappeared...


I just hope I didn't burn up any exhaust valves.
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