Need...more...brainpower (help me get my build running plz) - Page 6 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Engine Performance This section is for discussion on all engine building related questions.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-19-2011, 09:19 PM   #101
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (18)
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: oahu
Posts: 1,720
Total Cats: 2
Default

Bringing it back!

Just started working on it again and it is still not going. I:

-Added a ground to the intake manifold
-Checked the other grounds
-Installed the Aeromotive fpr (flushed the fuel and the pressure is 50psi that holds for hours)
-Left the tps disconnected (I am in mapdot still)

When watching the log, it shows 14 degrees spark...the afr go from 21 to 7 after cranking. Does that show the engine is flooding? I am attaching the log for your viewing pleasure.

Think I should do the starter fluid still? Any other input? Holy **** this car needs to drive!
Attached Files
File Type: msq trying harder.msq (34.8 KB, 59 views)
File Type: xls next attempt.xls (80.0 KB, 49 views)
astroboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2011, 09:46 PM   #102
Hittin' Boost & Cones
iTrader: (2)
 
240_to_miata's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Cromwell, Connecticut
Posts: 2,572
Total Cats: 11
Default

You have an LC1 right? It doesnt go active till a few seconds after the car is on so u wont get a true reading during cranking.

If its a AEM then IDK.
240_to_miata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2011, 04:39 PM   #103
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: NH
Posts: 60
Total Cats: -2
Default

General rule of thumb, to the best of my knowledge, is that WBO2 doesn't really work at all for diagnosing starts.

What I've done (IIRC) is start with something like 2x your req fuel for your cranking pulse, and start there. Then methodically remove small amounts of fuel until you get a nice start.
jch13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2011, 04:45 PM   #104
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,847
Total Cats: 1,788
Default

I moved my ground for my LC1 its own decidate ground back to the fuel rail ground and I can now log startup events once the heater has warmed...
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2011, 05:40 PM   #105
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (18)
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: oahu
Posts: 1,720
Total Cats: 2
Default

I have lc1 grounded to the same ground as the ecu. I also waited for the heater to do its thing before attempting to start. I am going to pull the plugs, disconnect the fuel pump power, and make sure it is sparking in the proper order...then if it is mess with the cas to see if any other position will yield better results.
astroboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2011, 12:26 AM   #106
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (18)
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: oahu
Posts: 1,720
Total Cats: 2
Default

Hard to tell if it was sparking in the proper order but it looks like some good sparks, also messing with the cas yielded no improvement.

Lastly I forgot starter fluid because I was focused on finishing opening my pool so I'll be doing that first thing tomorrow morning followed by checking my startup fueling and trying to conceive a way to check the spark order is correct.
astroboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2011, 01:39 AM   #107
Cpt. Slow
iTrader: (25)
 
curly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon City, OR
Posts: 12,105
Total Cats: 518
Default

You're sure 1&4 and 2&3 are firing together? It's easy to confuse injector pairs and coil pairs, since they're different. I have to look at my stock bracket every once in a while to remind me which is which.
curly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2011, 12:02 AM   #108
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (18)
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: oahu
Posts: 1,720
Total Cats: 2
Default

Something fishy is going on with my injector wiring. I did continuity checks and saw continuity between pin 2u and 3 out of 4 injectors on both pins (with the injector unplugged). I then checked at the inner bulkhead connector and 2u and 2v are separate. Guess it is time to recheck the wiring :(

Once I found that I didn't feel a need to continue so tomorrow should provide some resolution. Also going to be looking at the cop firing and rechecking the pinout on the cas as now I am doubting myself big time.
astroboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2011, 10:07 PM   #109
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (18)
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: oahu
Posts: 1,720
Total Cats: 2
Default

Well now I am stupid confused!

When I disconnected the one and three injectors there was no continuity between the two injector banks (the yellow and yellow/black wires), but when I plugged either one or three injector in (and I tried every injector combo) there was continuity between both injector banks.

Why would that be? The only thing I can think of is they all have the same power source and when I plug them in they are completing the circuit and both injector banks are connection (via the power wire [wht/red]). Anybody? Is this normal?


EDIT: After thinking about it the circuits are connected to the power circuit with a 12.3Ω coil separating each so they would all connect (or at least look connected to a fluke) when the injectors are installed. Sooooo I think this is normal, I am going to make sure the coils and injectors are wired to the proper cylinders tonight.

Last edited by astroboy; 07-26-2011 at 09:38 AM.
astroboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2011, 11:55 AM   #110
Senior Member
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Falls Church, VA
Posts: 1,367
Total Cats: 16
Default

Looks like you have figured this out already, but yes all injectors share a common 12V and are ground switched. When I was wiring mine up for sequential I found the madracki wiring diagrams to be a good online resource when I didn't have my FSM in front of me.
http://www.madracki.com/miata/wiring.html

If you're worried about injector wiring you should test it with all injectors unplugged. Then just make sure each injector is 12-13 ohms by itself.
ScottFW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2011, 01:50 PM   #111
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (18)
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: oahu
Posts: 1,720
Total Cats: 2
Default

Yeah, some thinking about it after getting some sleep allowed me to think more logically about it. All the injector resistances have already been verified so I'll be double checking the injector wiring (same way you stated as that is the only way this can be accomplished). Then make sure the cops are firing in the correct order and then I am out of ideas.

Thanks for the input!
astroboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2011, 04:04 PM   #112
Hittin' Boost & Cones
iTrader: (2)
 
240_to_miata's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Cromwell, Connecticut
Posts: 2,572
Total Cats: 11
Default

Ls1
240_to_miata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2011, 12:06 PM   #113
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (18)
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: oahu
Posts: 1,720
Total Cats: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 240_to_miata View Post
Ls1
Only if your helping me install it


No power last night so I worked by flashlight. Injector and cop signals are coming from and going to the correct places. Really running low on ideas now.
astroboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2011, 12:07 PM   #114
Elite Member
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Kingston, Ontario
Posts: 2,791
Total Cats: 71
Default

Go back to the very basics!

Fuel - pressure, injectors firing
Ignition - all firing, sync timing on #1 with the crank
Compression - verify
Air - make sure its getting in.

Besides that you should be able to check all of your sensors through the ECU on your laptop.

Start with a new base tune that is modified to your setup so you have went through all of the steps and can verify everything that has changed is in the tune(save your old one) update firmware and you should be golden.
shlammed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2011, 01:44 PM   #115
Cpt. Slow
iTrader: (25)
 
curly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon City, OR
Posts: 12,105
Total Cats: 518
Default

I agree with shlammed, if it's taken me this long, I usually missed something basic. After re-verifying all of what he mentioned, put brand new plugs in, ungapped.

Everything except what your testing should be disabled, so these new plugs should be the first and only start attempt with all systems plugged in. I'd use a MSPNP base map, changing only req fuel for your start.
curly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2011, 02:06 PM   #116
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: NH
Posts: 60
Total Cats: -2
Default

One time I couldn't get an engine started it was because the engine was blown, i.e. very low compression. Are you confident that your engine is solid?
jch13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2011, 02:08 PM   #117
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,847
Total Cats: 1,788
Default

and you're getting RPMs in TS, and spark and fuel?

is it possible to run that MS on another 90-93?
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2011, 03:00 PM   #118
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (18)
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: oahu
Posts: 1,720
Total Cats: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shlammed View Post
Go back to the very basics!

Fuel - pressure, injectors firing
Ignition - all firing, sync timing on #1 with the crank
Compression - verify
Air - make sure its getting in.

Besides that you should be able to check all of your sensors through the ECU on your laptop.

Start with a new base tune that is modified to your setup so you have went through all of the steps and can verify everything that has changed is in the tune(save your old one) update firmware and you should be golden.
Fuel - pressure, injectors firing

Pressure is @50psi at the fpr, injector wiring is verified correct and all injectors are at 12.3Ω, and when I pull a plug after cranking there is fuel on it

Ignition - all firing, sync timing on #1 with the crank

All coils ohm out correctly and have been verified to fire. I'll look at timing again after I try starter fluid

Compression - verify

1:135
2:135
3:135
4:150

Air - make sure its getting in.

Nothing is impeding the air (no blockages)

I am looking at my tune now for something that may be hindering this starting thing. I will download a base tune for comparison.

Quote:
Originally Posted by curly View Post
I agree with shlammed, if it's taken me this long, I usually missed something basic. After re-verifying all of what he mentioned, put brand new plugs in, ungapped.

Everything except what your testing should be disabled, so these new plugs should be the first and only start attempt with all systems plugged in. I'd use a MSPNP base map, changing only req fuel for your start.
I already tried it with brand new ungapped plugs. The only thing I didn't do was the base tune.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jch13 View Post
One time I couldn't get an engine started it was because the engine was blown, i.e. very low compression. Are you confident that your engine is solid?
This was my compression:
1:135
2:135
3:135
4:150

Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
and you're getting RPMs in TS, and spark and fuel?

is it possible to run that MS on another 90-93?
Yes, yes, and yes (Or at least as far as I can tell). I know only two other miata people and they are all far away. Maybe I could beg Mighty Mouse to let me try my MS in his car.
astroboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2011, 04:10 PM   #119
Elite Member
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Kingston, Ontario
Posts: 2,791
Total Cats: 71
Default

will the amphenol used flow the current you need?


Last thing to check after you have made sure all of that works is the continuity of EVERY electrical connection from ECU to plug as well as grounds to ground and positive leads to ground for power.

With what you say... assuming the wiring is adequate and properly connected you have improper timing on something... be it injectors, spark or cam

Cam timing would be more obvious and was detailed earlier in this thread... but if you still have the stock intake cam... its worth a shot (at this point)
shlammed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2011, 04:10 PM   #120
Hittin' Boost & Cones
iTrader: (2)
 
240_to_miata's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Cromwell, Connecticut
Posts: 2,572
Total Cats: 11
Default

If i am actually in my apartment for long enough i will take one of your old tunes i have on my laptop, change it to your injector size, and then give it to you.

I am in georgia now, flying home tomorrow afternoon, limerock all day saturday to watch, and sunday ill be at my parents house, monday I fly back to georgia. So no promises.

Are you SURE those are the injectors you think they are and not like 550s or something?
240_to_miata is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
1994 Spec Miata Race Car SM/SM2/SSM For Sale Quinn Cars for sale/trade 6 10-23-2016 08:58 AM
Need help - Stock Balancer and Fastforward overlay pulleys Frank_and_Beans Supercharger Discussion 13 09-12-2016 09:17 PM
LucaCarMods's Boosted Dutch Miata Build! LucaCarMods Build Threads 11 02-14-2016 07:13 AM
3rd Time's a Charm...hopefully. zephyrusaurai Meet and Greet 2 09-28-2015 11:59 PM
Are my coils failing? viriiguy General Miata Chat 5 09-28-2015 08:39 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:21 AM.